mycarforum: ALL consolidated SMRT/NEL/KTM simisai BREAKDOWNS here! part 36

Can any accountant sexplain how�the trains are likely to be accounted for?

�

1) These trains are all capitalized as assets?

2) They are sent back for repair as�there are�major defects and they are still under warranty. Does the entity recognize impairment now, or work-in-progress? I assume these trains have been paid for.

3) Since these assets are not in used, will they be subject to depreciation?

�

The ROI of this entity will be kept artificially low for many years�(until 2023) since these are effectively "cash" that is not generating any income right?

�

Should the shareholders (Singaporeans) be concerned since our monies are not put into good use?

�

Should the managers of this entity be sacked for poor ROI and trying to make the cause opaque? We are talking about 2bn of public funds.

�

a. Yes

b. Impairment will be triggered if these trains are not income generating.� It is 50-50 argument since it is under repair.

c. Regardless whether in use or not, it has to be depreciated.

�

With low equity (capital + retained earning), ROI will always be kept high.

�

We should not concern as govt buy lower cost assets with long period of warranty.� Good buy.

Dont take mrt daily. But if mrt breakdown, all of us will be directly or indirectly affected.

If mrt breakdown, confirmed everyone would get affected, whether the breakdown is minor or major.

If mrt breakdown, confirmed everyone would get affected, whether the breakdown is minor or major.

everyone except PAP�

ERP will still function perfectly. In fact, more income since many more trips on private tpt, taxis and ubers.

�

If mrt breakdown, confirmed everyone would get affected, whether the breakdown is minor or major.

�

No leh... MRT breakdown....people ditch public transport for cars, ERP goes up, COE goes up....

�

Government revenue goes up

�

Government = PAP

�

everyone except PAP�

�

ERP will still function perfectly. In fact, more income since many more trips on private tpt, taxis and ubers.

ERP will never breakdown de. Lol.

everyone except PAP

Got lah... They have to deplore minister to take photo.

Where is hui ge?

Where is hui ge?

hiding under tarp

ERP will never breakdown de. Lol.

Never say never. Going by what being posted on SBF (by that Farhan), LTA have to place more order to make up for the defective train.

�

In the case of our ERP system, maybe they (LTA / MOT) already discover fault / defect with the current system / reader, etc., which may potentially trigger a failure and resulted in lost of mil $$$, thus have to trigger te GPS based ERP system?? :yuush:

�

OK, I talk rubbish. <_< � TGIF [flowerface] �

Never say never. Going by what being posted on SBF (by that Farhan), LTA have to place more order to make up for the defective train.

In the case of our ERP system, maybe they (LTA / MOT) already discover fault / defect with the current system / reader, etc., which may potentially trigger a failure and resulted in lost of mil $$$, thus have to trigger te GPS based ERP system??

OK, I talk rubbish. TGIF

HDB and LtA,.,, two of the biggest flaw of government under LhL. Run by same person...

Yes of course. Come back then lim kopi first

Why u so bad...

It's confirmed! LTA is addicted to cracks [laugh]

What would then be the objective of this foreign media ?

�

�

You already pointed out that Elephant in the room - Politics.

I mentioned this before, it isn't about Singapore, but HK's domestic politics. Why I said that ?

�

Fact#1 - HK own MTR is buying trains for at over HK$6 billion contract for 93 new trains from the same Japanese-Chinese company based in China.

�

Fact#2 -� FactWire is a newly established online "independent" new media only a year ago. It started out after the pro-democracy Umbrella protests and riots over the last few years in the territory.

�

https://viewhk.wordp...edia-landscape/

�

Hai... what I have been trying very hard to say is this: the foreign media can have their objective to stir extreme right wing sentiments against China, for all I care.

�

If the defects (an acknowledged fact) hasn't happened and the shipping back of the trains hasn't happened, secretly or not secretly, no one will be able to make a story out of it.

�

My contention is that since it has happened, why hasn't LTA told the public? This question will have nothing to do with foreign politics.

Does this change the facts?

Those same facts that have now been confirmed by Singapore government spokespeople?

Why are you trying to divert attention by attacking the messenger?

�

My point exactly... this doesn't change the facts. Assuming there IS foreign intervention, does that mean therefore we cannot question LTA?

Edited by Alheych, 08 July 2016 - 11:04 PM.

hmm.. I don't know if a reporting can be considered as fair when editors tried sensationalizing news with those words like "secret".

�

This is like what tabloids papers usually do to gain readership... �

�

instead of resorting to argumentum ad hominem, why are you not considering the facts of the situation, including LTA's official response to the news? It seems to me that the HKG report is fairer than your focus on their use of the term "secret" and their motives.

�

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"^[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

�

oh. Just as a tabloid (or any news agency)�is trying to gain readership, are you trying to clock posts or troll other forumers?

�

bye for now.

instead of resorting to argumentum ad hominem, why are you not considering the facts of the situation, including LTA's official response to the news? It seems to me that the HKG report is fairer than your focus on their use of the term "secret" and their motives.

�

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"^[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

�

�

oh. Just as a tabloid (or any news agency)�is trying to gain readership, are you trying to clock posts or troll other forumers?

�

bye for now.

�

Let's agree to disagree.

�

If IYV consider me "trolling", you are welcome to ignore my postings.� Is that difficult ?

Hai... what I have been trying very hard to say is this: the foreign media can have their objective to stir extreme right wing sentiments against China, for all I care.

�

If the defects (an acknowledged fact) hasn't happened and the shipping back of the trains hasn't happened, secretly or not secretly, no one will be able to make a story out of it.

�

My contention is that since it has happened, why hasn't LTA told the public? This question will have nothing to do with foreign politics.

�

My point exactly... this doesn't change the facts. Assuming there IS foreign intervention, does that mean therefore we cannot question LTA?

�

I would certainly be less suspicious of� FartWire (*typo intended* [:p] ) real intention if it hadn't clearly attempt to hype up and sensationalist in its reporting . If its founders want their young enterprise to be regarded as respected news provider in the field of� "investigative journalism", why don't they even bother to send a single reporter and ask for an interviewer with a LTA official regarding the defective trains and how it was handled ?

�

Isn't that what its founder promised to do with all those crowdfunded $ ?

"...A truly independent, impartial, and nonpartisan news..."

I would certainly be less suspicious of� FartWire (*typo intended* ) real intention if it hadn't clearly attempt to hype up and sensationalist in its reporting . If its founders want their young enterprise to be regarded as respected news provider in the field of� "investigative journalism", why don't they even bother to send a single reporter and ask for an interviewer with a LTA official regarding the defective trains and how it was handled ?

�

Isn't that what its founder promised to do with all those crowdfunded $ ?

"...A truly independent, impartial, and nonpartisan news..."

�

Assuming that they are hyping it up by calling it a secret.

�

Assuming that they are sensationalising the story by not verifying with LTA.

�

Assuming that they are political in wanting HK-ers to protest against China products.

�

Assuming that the trains were not returned in secret but just as part of a normal process.

�

Does that mean that the public is precluded from questioning LTA on why it didn't inform the public all along?

�

We are now questioning LTA. Not Factwire. If the facts on which LTA is being questioned is disagreed by LTA, then ok, we suspend our questions and verify the Factwire claims first. But we haven't even talk about the falsification of train performance data yet. We are talking about the return of the trains, which LTA has already admitted to. Why can't we question LTA on that?

Edited by Alheych, 09 July 2016 - 12:27 AM.

Assuming they are hyping it up by calling it a secret.

�

Assuming that they are sensationalising the story by not verifying with LTA.

�

Assuming that they are political in wanting HK-ers to protest against China products.

�

Assuming that the trains were not returned in secret but just as part of a normal process.

�

Does that mean that the public is precluded from questioning LTA on why it didn't inform the public all along?

�

Props to you for your patience�

Heard that SMRT will stop buying the trains from Qingdao Sifang.

Instead they will now buy from

Zhende Chibai.

U forgot to mention that HK govt knows about the hairline crack a year ago but HK MTR still buys from the same contractor.

�

Maybe you can also tell us about the pc of article on TaiShan nuclear power plant.

�

I believe you are relying on another FartWire report (5 July) which it based on several emails from unknown "government" sources that were allegedly send to HK gov during the 1st half of 2015 claiming Singapore has added "thousands of brackets" to the defective models as "temporary measure".

Source: https://www.factwire...Early-2015.html

�

LTA responded to that FartWire's report on 7 July

http://www.channelne...to/2938818.html

SINGAPORE: The Land Transport Authority (LTA) on Thursday (Jul 7) refuted a report by Hong Kong-based media outlet FactWire suggesting that the cracks found in 26 of the 35 trains delivered to SMRT in 2013 affected the structural integrity of the trains.

�

Maybe we should be asking the question - From whom did Factwire got those emails and if it had done duel-diligence in their source verification before publishing those emails...Once that is clear , then we start talking about nuclear power plants construction.

�

Edit:

btw Another poster also mentioned below email reported by FartWire, saying this overseas source as "legit"...

...but on what basis ? I don't know. I only know so far FartWire editor hadn't defended against LTA's response.

http://www.mycarforu...here/?p=5873215

�

I think it is high time that FactWire sent their investigative team back to Singapore (minus the drone) and request for an interview with LTA.

�

Edited by Wishcumstrue, 09 July 2016 - 12:56 AM.

LOL an�anonymous prick disliked my reply and commented "why so f**king defensive?"

�

how am I being defensive?

pls go check a dicktionary� for the meaning of "defensive"

�

and using� vulgarities ? no intelligent� input?

In Singapore, if nvr announce to ppl, it means ppl no need to know.

�

In HK, if nvr announce to ppl, it is a secret.

�

U must understand the cultural difference.

�

Well...looking at how HK's growing "culture" of indifference, defiance, xenophobia and insecurity. ....I certainly would NOT prefer we go down that same path.

�

???????

Assuming that they are hyping it up by calling it a secret.

�

Assuming that they are sensationalising the story by not verifying with LTA.

�

Assuming that they are political in wanting HK-ers to protest against China products.

�

Assuming that the trains were not returned in secret but just as part of a normal process.

�

Does that mean that the public is precluded from questioning LTA on why it didn't inform the public all along?

�

We are now questioning LTA. Not Factwire. If the facts on which LTA is being questioned is disagreed by LTA, then ok, we suspend our questions and verify the Factwire claims first. But we haven't even talk about the falsification of train performance data yet. We are talking about the return of the trains, which LTA has already admitted to. Why can't we question LTA on that?

�

I already state my position on those comments in red, esp about an official answer by LTA, if not KBW himself:

http://www.mycarforu...here/?p=5872413
�

Notice in all those 4 assumptions you listed,� I have yet to see anyone defending FartWire report by claiming it isn't politically motivated nor has any unsaid agenda. [;)]

I already state my position on those comments in red, esp about an official answer by LTA, if not KBW himself:

http://www.mycarforu...here/?p=5872413
�

Notice in all those 4 assumptions you listed,� I have yet to see anyone defending FartWire report by claiming it isn't politically motivated nor has any unsaid agenda.

�

As long as their agenda has nothing to do with attacking Singapore's interest, why should we care?

�

According to your suspected agenda, the Singapore govt is collateral damage from their expose and Singapore citizens are the unintended beneficiaries.

Edited by Kusje, 09 July 2016 - 01:38 AM.

As long as their agenda has nothing to do with attacking Singapore's interest, why should we care?

�

According to your suspected agenda, the Singapore govt is collateral damage from their expose and Singapore citizens are the unintended beneficiaries.

�

We should because FartWire break that basic 101-rule when comes to journalism - Able to substantial your source reliability ,provide views from BOTH sides of the story and, most importantly, able to practice editorial objectivity� without the need to turn to tabloid-ish news reporting.

�

We know how HK media is - free, open, competitive and controversial -That's their choice, and perhaps one form of mess entertainment.

�

But if foreign media or news agencies starts to get involve with Singapore's domestic affairs and worst making accusations of "secret" operation while doing their own "secret" act by illegally flying drones over our restricted zones...well, you get the idea.

�

So, I am surprised you consider FartWire's behavior as "beneficial" to Singaporean ?!

Bro...I hope you aren't the same group of people who used to hip praise on TRS and its stories as gospels..

Edited by Wishcumstrue, 09 July 2016 - 01:54 AM.

No waves without wind!

Factwire's nice aerial footage would keep LTA and SMRT on their toes for a while.� Exposure of secrets is great to keep the system clean.

�

LTA has yet to cum clean on why awarding a second contract to the same company when it already knew the first batch of trains had problem.

�

It is like buying another VW with problematic DSG when your first one VW is still in the workshop.

�

Simple question deserves simple answer.

Lucky smrt had been on service since 1980s and have a lot of train in service. So they could still use existing train and perhaps delay retirement for some older train.

Imagine if it is a newly built train line and there are no existing train to play around with. New train come and 3/4 cannot be used and need to send back to manufacture to rectify the defects. The train operation will be greatly affected. We are not talking a few months it's a few years.

So hopefully lta learnt a big lesson and for the future train project, they will be extra careful regarding the ordering of trains.

Edited by Yewheng, 09 July 2016 - 03:05 AM.

Assuming that they are hyping it up by calling it a secret.

Assuming that they are sensationalising the story by not verifying with LTA.

Assuming that they are political in wanting HK-ers to protest against China products.

Assuming that the trains were not returned in secret but just as part of a normal process.

Does that mean that the public is precluded from questioning LTA on why it didn't inform the public all along?

We are now questioning LTA. Not Factwire. If the facts on which LTA is being questioned is disagreed by LTA, then ok, we suspend our questions and verify the Factwire claims first. But we haven't even talk about the falsification of train performance data yet. We are talking about the return of the trains, which LTA has already admitted to. Why can't we question LTA on that?

Minewhile...

http://www.channelne....html?cid=fbcna

They are wasting resources arguing about handover of town council for the account audit for duplicate work.

So to them this is a lot more serious then the train defects that affected 3/4 of the new order.. Sigh..

This time WP at big fault for what is reported in the news. Darn waste tax payers money. No matter which party run the town council there is only one conclusion. For benefit of own party be it pap or other opposition party. End up more resources is wasted for all these stupid nonsense. If we have smaller government less resources will be wasted. No need see so much nonsense.

Edited by Yewheng, 09 July 2016 - 10:08 AM.

I already state my position on those comments in red, esp about an official answer by LTA, if not KBW himself:

http://www.mycarforu...here/?p=5872413
�

Notice in all those 4 assumptions you listed,� I have yet to see anyone defending FartWire report by claiming it isn't politically motivated nor has any unsaid agenda.

�

No Singaporean�will defend Factwire cos we are we and they are they..... :ignoring: �. We don't go rioting or camping-out parliament house for weeks or months. ^_^

�

We thanks them for bringing the matter up and LTA LLST have to make it known to public that there was such things as trains being send back to the manufacturer�due to cracks.

�

Some questions need to be answered:

�

If LTA deem that the cracks are non safety issue, why send them back ? ( mean LTA doubt our very own Bishan Workshop engineers & mechanics to do the repairs ? )

�

Of the 35 brought, 26 send back deem not serious ?

�

Knowingly that the first batch of trains got faults, Why buy from same manufacturer again for second batch�?�(just because of discount ?)

�

I had been taught in my Workplace Safety Courses that Singapore used to follow American Safety Standard code, then we followed the British Standard code�and recent years we added the�European & Japanese Standard�code which were set at a very high safety standard.

�

We even came out with our very own Singapore Safety Standard code which comprised mostly of all the above.

�

With LTA managing the trains could overlook such Safety Standard code and order a second batch of trains again from the same manufacturer, then we should throw away our Singapore Standard code.

�

As a big organisation that ferrying few hundred thousand of passengers daily, they should set an example of maintaining the highest Standard code in due respect to passengers safety,�their very own maintenance workers, technicians & engineers safety�and to ensure the best quality trains are put to service.

�

If the reports are true and made known only recently, then�we are duped since 2011. Even so�if it were minor cases�in 2011, then how to explain from 2013 onwards... :lll._.: �'

�

My personal opinion on this matters�... :we-all-gonna-die:

No waves without wind!

Factwire's nice aerial footage would keep LTA and SMRT on their toes for a while.� Exposure of secrets is great to keep the system clean.

�

LTA has yet to cum clean on why awarding a second contract to the same company when it already knew the first batch of trains had problem.

�

It is like buying another VW with problematic DSG when your first one VW is still in the workshop.

�

Simple question deserves simple answer.

Precisely. Jaguar owners also have the same approach mah. If not problematic then no need to buy another.� [laugh]

...

Some questions need to be answered:

�

If LTA deem that the cracks are non safety issue, why send them back ? ( mean LTA doubt our very own Bishan Workshop engineers & mechanics to do the repairs ? )

...

..

�

If I'm not mistaken, read that the train body structure has to be re-cast, i.e. completely new, by the japanese partner company, with the prc company relegated to doing only the re-assembly.

�

It's not just mere replacement of a small structural part, such major works can only be done at the manufacturer's factory. And this also explains the long time-line for completion of the work.

I already state my position on those comments in red, esp about an official answer by LTA, if not KBW himself:

http://www.mycarforu...here/?p=5872413
�

Notice in all those 4 assumptions you listed,� I have yet to see anyone defending FartWire report by claiming it isn't politically motivated nor has any unsaid agenda.

�

So you believe that if Wife is cheating on Husband, and ~~Husband~~�(ok) Unrelated Stranger exposes the affair by�hacking Wife's phone when he is not supposed to, the issue of�hacking the phone is infinitely more important and Husband must confront Unrelated Stranger first, even if Wife has already admitted to cheating?

�

I rest my case, because I am obviously a different kind of person from you.�

�

Porker, I also run out of patience liao.

No Singaporean�will defend Factwire cos we are we and they are they..... �. We don't go rioting or camping-out parliament house for weeks or months.

�

We thanks them for bringing the matter up and LTA LLST have to make it known to public that there was such things as trains being send back to the manufacturer�due to cracks.

�

Good to know. But if you wanna thank Factwire for exposing the so called "secret", then I have you say you are seriously misguided - This HK new agency is doing for its own self interest, not for Singaporean.

�

�

Some questions need to be answered:

�

If LTA deem that the cracks are non safety issue, why send them back ? ( mean LTA doubt our very own Bishan Workshop engineers & mechanics to do the repairs ? )

�

Of the 35 brought, 26 send back deem not serious ?

�

Knowingly that the first batch of trains got faults, Why buy from same manufacturer again for second batch�?�(just because of discount ?)

�

�

I had been taught in my Workplace Safety Courses that Singapore used to follow American Safety Standard code, then we followed the British Standard code�and recent years we added the�European & Japanese Standard�code which were set at a very high safety standard.

�

We even came out with our very own Singapore Safety Standard code which comprised mostly of all the above.

�

With LTA managing the trains could overlook such Safety Standard code and order a second batch of trains again from the same manufacturer, then we should throw away our Singapore Standard code.

�

As a big organisation that ferrying few hundred thousand of passengers daily, they should set an example of maintaining the highest Standard code in due respect to passengers safety,�their very own maintenance workers, technicians & engineers safety�and to ensure the best quality trains are put to service.

�

If the reports are true and made known only recently, then�we are duped since 2011. Even so�if it were minor cases�in 2011, then how to explain from 2013 onwards... �'

�

�

�

My personal opinion on this matters�...

�

I don't know what were the syllabus covered in those "Workplace Safety Courses" you had attended. But did any of those mentioned many of those safety standards are frequently written in blood ?

�

That many of those standards were created AFTER accidents have occurred, some of which involved fatalities. Taking this case of hairline cracks in metal, we have Germany's Eschede train disaster, Boeing 737 fuselage failure on Aloha Airlines 243 and JAL123 crash that resulted in the largest single-plane crash fatalities in aviation history.

�

All of the above happened during operation when undiscovered metal fatigue resulted in catastrophic failure, either due to policy practices, negligence, poor maintenance, or lousy designs.

�

However, unlike those large organizations involved in those preventable disasters, SMRT has done their due diligence in their check, given the manpower,� time constrain and perhaps limited technical know-how.

�

Why aren't you acknowledging this obvious fact ?

�

1998 Germany high speed train derailment disaster - caused by undiscovered hairline crack in flawed wheel design. Over 100 death.

615AUd9dynL._SX403_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

�

So you believe that if Wife is cheating on Husband, and ~~Husband~~�(ok) Unrelated Stranger exposes the affair by�hacking Wife's phone when he is not supposed to, the issue of�hacking the phone is infinitely more important and Husband must confront Unrelated Stranger first, even if Wife has already admitted to cheating?

�

I rest my case, because I am obviously a different kind of person from you.�

�

Porker, I also run out of patience liao.

�

LOL!

�

Are you suggesting that LTA/SMRT is having an illicit affair with its contractor and on that rational justify a foreign media to conduct illegal drone flight over our airspace (aka "hacking" phone) and later using this discovery to tell the world about this "secret" operation in Singapore ?!

�

I love that analogy. But the problem is no one has admitted "cheating" and nor has that "Unrelated Stranger" say so in any of its articles. and nor has it provide reliable evidence of cheating.

�

If you have so much faith with a "Unrelated Stranger" story that your wife is cheating, does that not reflect that your marriage is already on the rock with so little trust ?

Good to know. But if you wanna thank Factwire for exposing the so called "secret", then I have you say you are seriously misguided - This HK new agency is doing for its own self interest, not for Singaporean.

I don't know what were the syllabus covered in those "Workplace Safety Courses" you had attended. But did any of those mentioned many of those safety standards are frequently written in blood ?

That many of those standards were created AFTER accidents have occurred, some of which involved fatalities. Taking this case of hairline cracks in metal, we have Germany's Eschede train disaster, Boeing 737 fuselage failure on Aloha Airlines 243 and JAL123 crash that resulted in the largest single-plane crash fatalities in aviation history.

All of the above happened during operation when undiscovered metal fatigue resulted in catastrophic failure, either due to policy practices, negligence, poor maintenance, or lousy designs.

However, unlike those large organizations involved in those preventable disasters, SMRT has done their due diligence in their check, given the manpower, time constrain and perhaps limited technical know-how.

Why aren't you acknowledging this obvious fact ?

1998 Germany high speed train derailment disaster - caused by undiscovered hairline crack in flawed wheel design. Over 100 death.

Ours is not high speed train. Nevertheless at the end of the day, whatever decision lta decided to award the tender to build mrt train. We could only pray hard that it would not be a bad deal as there is nothing we could do about it. When this happened of Coz we will keep kao pei as it involved tax payers money. So well..

/Yawn/

Any MRT breakdown today? [sleeping]

Minewhile...

http://www.channelne....html?cid=fbcna

They are wasting resources arguing about handover of town council for the account audit for duplicate work.

So to them this is a lot more serious then the train defects that affected 3/4 of the new order.. Sigh..

This time WP at big fault for what is reported in the news. Darn waste tax payers money. No matter which party run the town council there is only one conclusion. For benefit of own party be it pap or other opposition party. End up more resources is wasted for all these stupid nonsense. If we have smaller government less resources will be wasted. No need see so much nonsense.

This is becoming ridiculous.
What has happened to the town council act review that was supposed to have been undertaken?

To sort out this infighting needs to be a priority.

And I note the PAP is again accusing their opponent of malfeasance.

What is that line about people seeing in others what they would do themselves?

This is becoming ridiculous.
What has happened to the town council act review that was supposed to have been undertaken?

To sort out this infighting needs to be a priority.

And I note the PAP is again accusing their opponent of malfeasance.

What is that line about people seeing in others what they would do themselves?

This is mrt thread... Can discuss this at another thread?

Make the opposition looked bad is more important.

Make the opposition looked bad is more important.

too much time invested to "fix" opposition
valuable time should be used to make things good
MUST CUM CLEAN !!!!

Well...looking at how HK's growing "culture" of indifference, defiance, xenophobia and insecurity. ....I certainly would NOT prefer we go down that same path.

�

�

???????

I already says that it is difference in perspective.

I believe you are relying on another FartWire report (5 July) which it based on several emails from unknown "government" sources that were allegedly send to HK gov during the 1st half of 2015 claiming Singapore has added "thousands of brackets" to the defective models as "temporary measure".

Source: https://www.factwire...Early-2015.html

�

�

LTA responded to that FartWire's report on 7 July

http://www.channelne...to/2938818.html

SINGAPORE: The Land Transport Authority (LTA) on Thursday (Jul 7) refuted a report by Hong Kong-based media outlet FactWire suggesting that the cracks found in 26 of the 35 trains delivered to SMRT in 2013 affected the structural integrity of the trains.

�

Maybe we should be asking the question - From whom did Factwire got those emails and if it had done duel-diligence in their source verification before publishing those emails...Once that is clear , then we start talking about nuclear power plants construction.

�

�

�

Edit:

btw Another poster also mentioned below email reported by FartWire, saying this overseas source as "legit"...

...but on what basis ? I don't know. I only know so far FartWire editor hadn't defended against LTA's response.

http://www.mycarforu...here/?p=5873215

�

I think it is high time that FactWire sent their investigative team back to Singapore (minus the drone) and request for an interview with LTA.

�

�

�

Thanks for spending replying to me.

�

I haven't read their article. �I rather spent more time reading entertainment gossip on Apple Daily. �Less stressful.

too much time invested to "fix" opposition
valuable time should be used to make things good
MUST CUM CLEAN !!!!

When ever I see people post about this I want to laugh. It's different group of people doing different thing. I will be worry if they can only do one thing at a time.

Noticed that today's Sunday Times published sensational two full page article about internet prostitution in singapore. Since when was that a big concern?

Typical smoke-screen ops diverting the public attention with juicy details (interview with $500 local FL) about unrelated matter or recycled old news.

We want more news about LTA cum clean about this train recall affair which to me and possibly many others, is an even dirtier revelation. Silence has been deafening.

To add insult to injury, front page headline has PM and LTA chief talking about car-lite singapore *???*

/Yawn/

Any MRT breakdown today?

Just only 2 days and all news have ceased reporting on this ...
Now, only reporting on the StanChart bank...

Everything is back to normal .... That's life in Singapore

Noticed that today's Sunday Times published sensational two full page article about internet prostitution in singapore. Since when was that a big concern?

Typical smoke-screen ops diverting the public attention with juicy details (interview with $500 local FL) about unrelated matter or recycled old news.

We want more news about LTA cum clean about this train recall affair which to me and possibly many others, is an even dirtier revelation. Silence has been deafening.

To add insult to injury, front page headline has PM and LTA chief talking about car-lite singapore *???*

�

todays ST picture of LHL and the LTA chief cycling together is a big middle finger to all Singaporeans. they have a script to follow, and they will ignore you... because they can!!�

using the geylang sex story is really quite apt... they are figuratively telling�everyone fxxk off...

Actually from the 2nd day after the news leak surfaced (from Factwire), it is no longer the TOP trending topics on CNA webpage! And even my 2 teenage kids laughed at one of the top news which stated that the amount rubbish we generated is now 3 or was it 5 times more than in the 70s. Simple mathematics question right, given than our population grow as much since then....

End of the day, safety is the least important as compared to carlite, rubbish generation, prostitution, or even increase in penalties for those that evaded payment of road/toll charges. And by saying safety, I am not just referring to the train issue, but the high accidents and fatalities rate of late. The figures till date is near record breaking FYI.

Edited by Carbon82, 10 July 2016 - 03:59 PM.

Actually from the 2nd day after the news leak surfaced (from Factwire), it is no longer the TOP trending topics on CNA webpage! And even my 2 teenage kids laughed at one of the top news which stated that the amount rubbish we generated is now 3 or was it 5 times more than in the 70s. Simple mathematics question right, given than our population grow as much since then....

End of the day, safety is the least important as compared to carlite, rubbish generation, prostitution, or even increase in penalties for those that evaded payment of road/toll charges. And by saying safety, I am not just referring to the train issue, but the high accidents and fatalities rate of late. The figures till date is near record breaking FYI.

�

I think you better make more happy post like some milf inside mpv to help distract this kind of nonsense news� [laugh]

anybody can verify this information:

�

Apparently this is from an MRT mgr:

�

The old Japanese trains - Nippon, Kawasaki, Hitachi etc including German� Siemen's trains all weigh in at 132 tons.� Chinese trains are 5 tons heavier.�

�

Chinese trains were pressed into service in 2012.� The tracks and electrical could not support the weight and the electricity consumption and as a result the many massive train failures.�

�

LTA bought the trains for MRT.� They wash their hands after the purchase.� SMRT had to spend about S$ 1 billion to accommodate the Chinese operation to upgrade the track facilities.� They are still spending because the tracks are nit fully replaced to accommodate the heavier Chinese trains at 137 tons.�

�

Passengers add another 20 tons and the electrical draw on the operation is close to capacity.� That is why we are seeing so many power failures in the SMRT operation.�

�

It is a case of penny wise pound foolish.

if this info is "genuine" ... LTA WTF??????

Edited by Wt_know, 10 July 2016 - 09:28 PM.

Skoolers will say 5 tons niah, about 3.8% more than 132 tons. Also, 5 tons spread over so many steel wheels, sup sup water lah. [:p]

�

My view is, in the beginning, we already bought a crippled train system: (i) speed too slow maciam those Sentosa monorails (ii) signalling system also crippled=> frequency cannot be shortened to to the nearest in order to meet future growth.

�

anybody can verify this information:

�

Apparently this is from an MRT mgr:

�

The old Japanese trains - Nippon, Kawasaki, Hitachi etc including German� Siemen's trains all weigh in at 132 tons.� Chinese trains are 5 tons heavier.�

�

Chinese trains were pressed into service in 2012.� The tracks and electrical could not support the weight and the electricity consumption and as a result the many massive train failures.�

�

LTA bought the trains for MRT.� They wash their hands after the purchase.� SMRT had to spend about S$ 1 billion to accommodate the Chinese operation to upgrade the track facilities.� They are still spending because the tracks are nit fully replaced to accommodate the heavier Chinese trains at 137 tons.�

�

Passengers add another 20 tons and the electrical draw on the operation is close to capacity.� That is why we are seeing so many power failures in the SMRT operation.�

�

It is a case of penny wise pound foolish.

�

Edited by Kangadrool, 10 July 2016 - 10:01 PM.

Hai... what I have been trying very hard to say is this: the foreign media can have their objective to stir extreme right wing sentiments against China, for all I care.

If the defects (an acknowledged fact) hasn't happened and the shipping back of the trains hasn't happened, secretly or not secretly, no one will be able to make a story out of it.

My contention is that since it has happened, why hasn't LTA told the public? This question will have nothing to do with foreign politics.

My point exactly... this doesn't change the facts. Assuming there IS foreign intervention, does that mean therefore we cannot question LTA?

A very even-handed and sensible post and I couldn't agree more. All the more welcome because it's coming from someone I consider mainly pro-gahmen (yet who clearly has the ability to see through smokescreens).

It boils down to playing the ball, not the man. The motives of those breaking the news don't matter. The facts still need answering.

Edited by Turboflat4, 10 July 2016 - 10:39 PM.

anybody can verify this information:

�

Apparently this is from an MRT mgr:

�

The old Japanese trains - Nippon, Kawasaki, Hitachi etc including German� Siemen's trains all weigh in at 132 tons.� Chinese trains are 5 tons heavier.�

�

�

That was one of the consideration in the investigation on the cause of 1st major disruption in Dec 2011.

COI disagree that the additional weight of less than 5% of the train's unladen weight is the cause, rather placing blame of SMRT's maintenance regime and practices at had deteriorated over the years..

�

COI on NS-line Dec 2011 disruption

http://www.channelne...ons-93-data.pdf

�

In fact, initially SMRT placed blame on the C151A's weight as the root cause, but fail to explain why only the NS line is affected while EW line is okay since C151A service both lines.

�

Chinese trains were pressed into service in 2012.� The tracks and electrical could not support the weight and the electricity consumption and as a result the many massive train failures.�
�

Incorrect - the 1s batch of MIC train went into service from May 2011, not 2012.

�

Also the argument that our tracks and electric cannot support the additional weight goes against the fact all bidding contractors must meet LTA's� specifications that includes track requirements of 750V dc while providing the max laden weight of the train (total weight of max pax+train)

�

In fact, C151A is based on Kawasaki's own MIJ C751B, which also operate on both NSEW lines, sharing the same electrical propulsion system and body construct.

�

https://en.wikipedia...on_Sharyo_C751B

�

�

LTA bought the trains for MRT.� They wash their hands after the purchase.� SMRT had to spend about S$ 1 billion to accommodate the Chinese operation to upgrade the track facilities.� They are still spending because the tracks are nit fully replaced to accommodate the heavier Chinese trains at 137 tons.�

�

Passengers add another 20 tons and the electrical draw on the operation is close to capacity.� That is why we are seeing so many power failures in the SMRT operation.�

�

It is a case of penny wise pound foolish.

�

Is that based on factual findings ?

From where did you got this info ?

Edited by Wishcumstrue, 10 July 2016 - 11:56 PM.

anybody can verify this information:

Apparently this is from an MRT mgr:

The old Japanese trains - Nippon, Kawasaki, Hitachi etc including German Siemen's trains all weigh in at 132 tons. Chinese trains are 5 tons heavier.

Chinese trains were pressed into service in 2012. The tracks and electrical could not support the weight and the electricity consumption and as a result the many massive train failures.

LTA bought the trains for MRT. They wash their hands after the purchase. SMRT had to spend about S$ 1 billion to accommodate the Chinese operation to upgrade the track facilities. They are still spending because the tracks are nit fully replaced to accommodate the heavier Chinese trains at 137 tons.

Passengers add another 20 tons and the electrical draw on the operation is close to capacity. That is why we are seeing so many power failures in the SMRT operation.

It is a case of penny wise pound foolish.

Oh so that's how it comes about increase in weight by 1/3 of the passenger load. At 1st I thought increase of weight is alot that I wrote to lta and smrt for concern. Now that's only 5 tonnes extra of 3 plus to 4% weight increasement. Not a lot actually.

But still it puzzles me that with advancement in technology why still go order heavier train? They should go for lighter train as technological advancement make it possible to build lighter chassis and stronger then older build. Lighter chassis will also reduce in overall weight and thus result in lower power consumption, end up also can save electric.

Edited by Yewheng, 10 July 2016 - 11:57 PM.

....
But still it puzzles me that with advancement in technology why still go order heavier train? They should go for lighter train as technological advancement make it possible to build lighter chassis and stronger then older build. Lighter chassis will also reduce in overall weight and thus result in lower power consumption, end up also can save electric.

�

Yes, having a lighter construct certainly helps in energy cost.

That is why most of C151 body uses aluminum alloy (including the cracked bolster)

�

However, reducing weight alone is insufficient to have any significant energy savings since� there are other factors that can help like regen braking, track design, better maintenance.

�

In fact a 2012 LTA journal also mention how the train is operated like rapid contant acceleration, early coasting and controlled regen braking sequence will also have significant cost saving� in energy while reducing wear and tear.

�

https://www.lta.gov....pores Rapid.pdf

�

So that 4~5% extra weight in C151A which could be attributed to different interior finishes, new air-conditioning, safety and signaling systems, does not mean commutes is going to pay for that.

�

Oh so that's how it comes about increase in weight by 1/3 of the passenger load. At 1st I thought increase of weight is alot that I wrote to lta and smrt for concern. Now that's only 5 tonnes extra of 3 plus to 4% weight increasement. Not a lot actually.

But still it puzzles me that with advancement in technology why still go order heavier train? They should go for lighter train as technological advancement make it possible to build lighter chassis and stronger then older build. Lighter chassis will also reduce in overall weight and thus result in lower power consumption, end up also can save electric.

Engineering constraint. Lighter chassis at the same strength will result in more cost for the same durability. I believe the hairline crack issue is the result.

A lot of things (and humans) are getting heavier as we progress unfortunately... including cars....

�

Yes, even Japanese cars now are pretty heavy - Mazda, Subaru...

�

The higher weight does not always equate stability or advantage.

�

While many would think that <5% increase in weight has insignificant effect on the whole system, I think otherwise as ours is a stop-start short distance train system. This exerts tremendous pressure on the locomotive, wheels, tracks, every damn things whenever it accelerates and decelerates.�

�

Oh so that's how it comes about increase in weight by 1/3 of the passenger load. At 1st I thought increase of weight is alot that I wrote to lta and smrt for concern. Now that's only 5 tonnes extra of 3 plus to 4% weight increasement. Not a lot actually.

But still it puzzles me that with advancement in technology why still go order heavier train? They should go for lighter train as technological advancement make it possible to build lighter chassis and stronger then older build. Lighter chassis will also reduce in overall weight and thus result in lower power consumption, end up also can save electric.

�

Edited by Kangadrool, 11 July 2016 - 07:57 AM.

Heng Ah....... [bounce2]

�

I thought my weight was the cause of the weight increase on the train every morning... :a-panic: ��

No wonder HPB always advocate weight loss to Singaporeans....must be secret tie-up with LTA to reduce stress on their trains:

�

preview.png?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8NzQ0

�

12-29-15+signapore+lose+to+win.jpg?token

�

A lot of things (and humans) are getting heavier as we progress unfortunately... including cars....

�

Yes, even Japanese cars now are pretty heavy - Mazda, Subaru...

�

The higher weight does not always equate stability or advantage.

�

While many would think that <5% increase in weight has insignificant effect on the whole system, I think otherwise as ours is a stop-start short distance train system. This exerts tremendous pressure on the locomotive, wheels, tracks, every damn things whenever it accelerates and decelerates.�

�

No wonder HPB always advocate weight loss to Singaporeans....must be secret tie-up with LTA to reduce stress on their trains:

�

�

�

�

no wonder Turboflat4 no tke train..

�

he go into 1 CABIN, limit reached

A lot of things (and humans) are getting heavier as we progress unfortunately... including cars....

Yes, even Japanese cars now are pretty heavy - Mazda, Subaru...

The higher weight does not always equate stability or advantage.

While many would think that <5% increase in weight has insignificant effect on the whole system, I think otherwise as ours is a stop-start short distance train system. This exerts tremendous pressure on the locomotive, wheels, tracks, every damn things whenever it accelerates and decelerates.

Must also remember.....
It is not always total weight. Maybe the system was designed to have a 10% weight tolerance....
With heavier train AND more passenger maybe this has been reduced to 5%..
That's a pretty significant change.

No wonder HPB always advocate weight loss to Singaporeans....must be secret tie-up with LTA to reduce stress on their trains:

�

�

�

�

�

�

Did that ger set her farts on fire or something? Because that's what it looks like.

Must also remember.....
It is not always total weight. Maybe the system was designed to have a 10% weight tolerance....
With heavier train AND more passenger maybe this has been reduced to 5%..
That's a pretty significant change.

Just like the electrical circuit.. It wasn't the new train that is taking up more consumption but the increase in number of train. Even if we are adding more with the original design from Japan. The power circuit won't be able to tahan.

no wonder Turboflat4 no tke train..

�

he go into 1 CABIN, limit reached

�

I usually just wear wig and muumuu and sit in priority seat as a "pregnant" "woman". No one can displace me. Actually, they seriously couldn't even if they tried.

I usually just wear wig and muumuu and sit in priority seat as a "pregnant" "woman". No one can displace me. Actually, they seriously couldn't even if they tried.

�

muahahaha

that brings us to the wonderful conundrum everyone is embarrassed to ask in real life....

�

I usually just wear wig and muumuu and sit in priority seat as a "pregnant" "woman". No one can displace me. Actually, they seriously couldn't even if they tried.

�

Before we go off on a�tangent again, let's bring ourselves back to these 2 questions that are begging to be answered:

�

1) Why the lack of�timely disclosure on the high defect rates�and�subsequent remediation of these PRC trains? My view is that there should be�adequate transparency�on the higher-than-usual�defects since�significant public funds were involved in the purchase.�Said disclosure should not come 5 years after the circus had�left the town.�

�

2) Why did LTA continue to buy from PRC after the initial batch of defective rubbish caused so much issues? Why wasn't the reason to buy again from them disclosed to the public? This to me, was a bigger problem than point 1 above. I hope we are not illegally pressured by PRC into buying these trains.

�

Now KBW�and his MOS will have to answer all these questions and more in parliament. Leave no�stones unturned.�

Correct wait for KBW and gang to respond..� Must be patient, they are crafting some excuses and usually takes weeks so that's why still so silent.�

�

I am only curious if the public should get ready some samurai swords for them Hara-kiri-kanan.

They are busy doing their long jaam pazz to determine whose turn is it to come up with a sex scandal to divert the attention....

�

Before we go off on a�tangent again, let's bring ourselves back to these 2 questions that are begging to be answered:

�

1) Why the lack of�timely disclosure on the high defect rates�and�subsequent remediation of these PRC trains? My view is that there should be�adequate transparency�on the higher-than-usual�defects since�significant public funds were involved in the purchase.�Said disclosure should not come 5 years after the circus had�left the town.�

�

2) Why did LTA continue to buy from PRC after the initial batch of defective rubbish caused so much issues? Why wasn't the reason to buy again from them disclosed to the public? This to me, was a bigger problem than point 1 above. I hope we are not illegally pressured by PRC into buying these trains.

�

Now KBW�and his MOS will have to answer all these questions and more in parliament. Leave no�stones unturned.�

�

Just one thought, what should be the cut off for disclosure to the public

Maybe to L t a and S M R T, this wasnt even in their consideration/protocol

Correct wait for KBW and gang to respond..� Must be patient, they are crafting some excuses and usually takes weeks so that's why still so silent.�

�

I am only curious if the public should get ready some samurai swords for them Hara-kiri-kanan.

You are right, they need to think of all sort of excuse to counterstrike the public. [rolleyes]

Just one thought, what should be the cut off for disclosure to the public

Maybe to L t a and S M R T, this wasnt even in their consideration/protocol

�

I'm sure LTA considered the disclosure because they eventually disclosed some information after Factwire did [laugh]

�

In terms of materiality of information for disclosure, they would have deemed it important enough because they disclosed the information after all [laugh]

�

That brought my first question above on why not earlier.... I will leave that to Khaw [rolleyes]

Engineering constraint. Lighter chassis at the same strength will result in more cost for the same durability. I believe the hairline crack issue is the result.

�

It is Financial constraint lah.�

It is Financial constraint lah.

Yes your are right. Thanks for correction should be Financial constraint. And sometime the reduction amount doesn't justify the increase in price.

No point building mrt with aeroplane material.

Edited by Joseph22, 11 July 2016 - 11:41 AM.

I'm sure LTA considered the disclosure because they eventually disclosed some information after Factwire did

�

In terms of materiality of information for disclosure, they would have deemed it important enough because they disclosed the information after all

�

That brought my first question above on why not earlier.... I will leave that to Khaw

�

LTA does not think that it is important to disclose.� That's why no disclosure.� Only when the new break, they disclose some fact.

�

We are peasants.� No need to know.

Yes your are right. Thanks for correction should be Financial constraint. And sometime the reduction amount doesn't justify the increase in price.

No point building mrt with aeroplane material.

�

Why no point to build MRT with aeroplane material?

�

It will help to lighten the train to take more passenger load.

LTA does not think that it is important to disclose. That's why no disclosure. Only when the new break, they disclose some fact.

We are peasants. No need to know.

Why no point to build MRT with aeroplane material?

It will help to lighten the train to take more passenger load.

Do u kill a chicken with parang? Easy for u to say now. If they really buy something so expensive... There will be more complain.

Edited by Joseph22, 11 July 2016 - 12:00 PM.

Still searching for the templates in the computer file folders... [:p]

�

Just one thought, what should be the cut off for disclosure to the public

Maybe to L t a and S M R T, this wasnt even in their consideration/protocol

�

https://sg.news.yaho...-013927667.html

Hoot of the day

Last tum, AIMgate, our KBW said no one breached any Town Council Act.� Lets see this tum whats the story.� Could be that SMRT/LTA/MOT did not breach any act or something like that.� Not I say one, not I say one.� I say say only for someone.� Not I say one.

Do u kill a chicken with parang? Easy for u to say now. If they really buy something so expensive... There will be more complain.

�

That's why keyboard warrior mah.� I don't mind paying more for less problem.
�

That's why keyboard warrior mah. I don't mind paying more for less problem.

It won't be no problem. Simply because reliability test wasn't conduct enough when they use a "lighter" material. Data can show that it match existing... But actual test might defer....

I know of accident that happen when better lighter material are use. But when test started.... After X times the whole thing give way. End up on paper very good, but actual usage proof otherwise.

Btw, this suppose to be joint venture by the jap and China company right?? Why the jap company like no impact to them.

It won't be no problem. Simply because reliability test wasn't conduct enough when they use a "lighter" material. Data can show that it match existing... But actual test might defer....

I know of accident that happen when better lighter material are use. But when test started.... After X times the whole thing give way. End up on paper very good, but actual usage proof otherwise.

Btw, this suppose to be joint venture by the jap and China company right?? Why the jap company like no impact to them.

�

There are lighter material with the same amount of strength, right?

There are lighter material with the same amount of strength, right?

There are but result defer greatly from reality... The reliability test can only be conducted over times spend on running.

hoothoothosay...

�

https://sg.news.yaho...-013927667.html

Hoot of the day

�

I would reckon its like the now divorced Hero Honda motocycles in India. When people saw that its a joint venture, expectations and perceived onus of accountability & quality are managed accordingly.

hoothoothosay...

Ownself hoot ownself

stir ar stir ... local journalist are meeks and no dare to "pecah lobang"? [sly] [laugh]

�

SMRT train saga exposes cracks in outdated media policy

�

The embarrassment is not just for the government. The MRT story exposed the local media�s inability and/or unwillingness to investigate government scandals and thus help play its rightful role in society.
�

Investigative journalism is a lost art here. Our newspapers are filled with press-release journalism, making them dull and at most times unreadable.

Edited by Wt_know, 11 July 2016 - 04:06 PM.

https://sg.news.yaho...-013927667.html

Hoot of the day

stir ar stir ... local journalist are meeks and no dare to "pecah lobang"?

�

SMRT train saga exposes cracks in outdated media policy

�

This guy also damn too much.�

�

�

�
P N Balji is a veteran Singaporean journalist who is the former chief editor of TODAY newspaper, and a media consultant. The views expressed are his own.

�

Could he have become chief editor without being part of the system which he is now criticizing? Hypocrite.�

This guy also damn too much.

Could he have become chief editor without being part of the system which he is now criticizing? Hypocrite.

Well. .. at least he made a decision to change and make up for past humiliation of working for SPH.

there are plenty who happily continue and call themselves "journalists."
I always wondered how those serious journalist feel about having SPH in their CV.. it's like working for PRC or North Korean media.

This guy also damn too much.�

�

�

Could he have become chief editor without being part of the system which he is now criticizing? Hypocrite.�

�

So, ppl who are former part of the system cannot criticize the system?

https://sg.news.yaho...-013927667.html

Hoot of the day

�

LOL!...Yahoo has a way of getting its political opinion across by using some one's comment. [:p] �

�

But people seems to forget the real reason behind why the Author is so supportive of "investigative journalism".

�

http://news.asiaone....ndependent-team

mycarforum

Thứ Bảy, 7 tháng 1, 2017

ALL consolidated SMRT/NEL/KTM simisai BREAKDOWNS here! part 36

Không có nhận xét nào:

Đăng nhận xét