Do not wory so much. One fare hike will resolve all these issues. Sup sup water lah.
Must get more ppl to give up their cars so that they can get more from the fare hike. Support car-lite city, yo.
More people give up car and take public transport, more will be at the mercy of fare hike with no other options available, more revenue for Smrt/temasak holdings.
when our mrt track start having crack, lets see them shipping the whole track back.
The Hong Kong MTR will be experiencing what we have very soon. That's why this is big news to them.
https://www.gov.sg/f...ts-manufacturer
Why are MRT trains being shipped back to manufacturer?
Why are MRT trains being shipped back to their manufacturer?
Defects were found during a check of new trains manufactured by Kawasaki Heavy Industries and CSR Sifang in late 2013. There were a few hairline cracks on the car-body. These are superficial cracks (like those that show up on the walls of a new house). They are not structural cracks and are not safety-critical. No cracks were found on other train components after further inspections.
Are these defects dangerous?
The defects are hairline cracks (due to material impurity that occurred during manufacturing) and are not safety-critical. They do not affect the train�s systems, performance or passengers� safety.
Are the trains still under warranty?
Yes, they are still under the manufacturer�s warranty. As such, the Land Transport Authority (LTA) is sending the trains in small batches back to the manufacturer for rectification. This is the appropriate thing to do to ensure we get the value for our money.
How can you be sure the trains are safe?
To ensure that trains are safe for passenger service, all defects are monitored closely. Monthly safety assessments are also conducted by LTA and the manufacturer before trains are put into service.
LTA also commissioned an external third party assessment in 2013 which had confirmed that the trains are safe to operate. As advised by the third party assessment, there has also been close monitoring of the crack propagation rate.
Why send back only one train at a time and not all 26 trains?
To ensure adequate train availability, only one train (six train cars) is sent back for repair at any one time. Starting next year, two trains will be sent back concurrently as we will have more new and upgraded trains to maintain train availability.
Why do the trains have to be sent back to China for repair?
The most effective way to address the defects is to replace the entire car-body shell. However, due to the lack of facilities and space for such replacement works of such nature at our Singapore train depots, the trains were sent back for repairs.
Why transport these trains in the dead of night?
Our trains are big and massive equipment. They are transported at night, with auxiliary police officers clearing the way ahead, to minimise obstruction and inconvenience to road users. Likewise, new trains that arrive in Singapore are transported on our roads at night.
Then why cover them up in green covers?
The green covers are to protect the trains, just as how we would bubble-wrap or enclose in boxes and styrofoam-pad electronic equipment and machinery that we want to transport overseas.
Will the repairs really take 7 years?
No, LTA has negotiated with the manufacturer and it will be able to speed up the process. Trains are being sent in batches and the rectification work will be completed in 2019. Each train car body replacement takes up to four months.
Was there really a case of a battery explosion?
The battery housing cover for one train undergoing testing before being put into service, flew open due to a build-up of gases. Immediate action was taken to improve the battery housing design for all affected trains.
What about shattered train windows?
No defects were found on train windows (the large ones behind passenger seats). However, cracks on draughtscreens (the glass panel at the side of a row of seats) were found on five trains. These were due to errors during the installation process which caused stress pressures on the glass, and unrelated to the incidents of hairline cracks on the trains.
For additional information: LTA's Facebook
Source: Ministry of Transport
It is a BIG COVER UP operation using all those canvas!
�
Whoever selected and accepted the defective products must cum clean.....
Canvas means........................... Cover All.......... whatever..................(fill in the blanks question paper)
Yup.The strategy is to try and make this about foreign interference in domestic matters and the drone in restricted area
If you remember.
Back in GCT time, he use the upgrading for votes tactics big time.
The US media retorted and even the US govt commented that is not the right way to run election.
GCT went big time in MSM saying is foreign interference and a crisis for singapore.
LTK shot back that it is a crisis for the pap of their own making, not a crisis for singapore about foreign interference. Don't mix party with nation. Shut him up pretty fast.
Expecting the same similar tactics coming.
Shoot the messenger.
Play "national crisis".
The script writers surely working over time now. The best ones are in govt. . Not in TCS.
Saw should by now have received a reminder not to talk or give any interviews.
AFAIK, none of the incoming new MRT trains were ever wrap up like the returning ones, regardless of the vendors.
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That also includes the latest driver-less models from France to the 1st generation trains� in the 1980s - majority were moved during night time when traffic is light.
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In fact, this is the 1st known case of having trains being return and to suspect this is all "secret" operation because the carriages are wrap and moved during night time is to me nothing more than juicing up an "investigative" journalism.
�
And by your reference that the contract involving "state own enterprise" is indeed, in line with what I had suspected about this HK-origin news - This is all about politics.
�
�
�
�
�
�
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Reason for wrapping : To protect the trains
New trains not wrapped - multiple instances
Old trains must be wrapped - 1 instance
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This makes sense to you? If there is no intent to cover up, then why must they wrap up the old trains? Obviously the reason given (protecting the trains) has been debunked.
why no sound no air from smrt and local media to report cheapo trains got problem in prior?
if ownself reported first ... probably can sugarcoat the message and manage expectations/reactions
why must wait until hk media pecah lobang ... when someone pecah lobang ...
no matter how it's already in bad publicity ...
in today edge of new media and internet ... they still believe can cover up?
they think sinkies only read ST and watch ch 5 news? muahahaha
![[mad]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_v8Z9xZ6u6QKBUo6TSQiNmDLX3M_LamYvUrmUCdjsdVtlIbX7Na4bHcSlhlRxzWHfDW2kD14eGkqJw4G8b-vLGTZLtLKAwVbae0OJArj2pyk0GeJTq0r9ub-F7gYXhFxx85gxg=s0-d)
Hubris lor...
they are obviously so much cleverer than the rest of us, they have a fantastic strategy to keep the news quiet, how is it possible they were found out?
�
Also - take note of something,
It took an illegal action to collect some of the evidence about this - which quite possibly speaks volumes about many things...
�
And something else to think about is this press release...
�
On 22 September 2015 an announcement was made of 12 new trains at a cost of $136.8 million.
So my questions would be...
1. If not for the returns - would these 12 trains still be needed?
2. 12 NEW trains in 2015, but 26 trains returned in 2016...that leaves a deficit of 14 trains - so we now have LESS trains than are required?�
How does this impact train frequency and ongoing maintenance?�
Is preventative maintenance going to be cut back to make up the "shortfall" in trains available?
�
And why - when this press release was made of the NEW purchase, was there no mention at all of the pending returns?
�
It's not a very pretty picture is it?
�
And here's another press release...
�
The NSEWL�s infrastructure will also be upgraded and replaced for enhanced service reliability. Two key projects LTA and SMRT embarked on in 2013 are the replacement of timber sleepers with concrete sleepers and upgrading of the signalling system. This year, LTA together with SMRT will also look at system wide renewal of the third rail. When completed, commuters can expect a smoother MRT journey.�
�
Can announce about sleeper replacement, and signalling - but cannot announce about the special inspections the trains were getting?�
�
I was watching "Catch me if you can" (the original) over the weekend - the recurring point there was that magic is all about misdirection...seems kinda apt in this situation
�
Edited by Darryn, 07 July 2016 - 10:05 AM.
The Hong Kong MTR will be experiencing what we have very soon. That's why this is big news to them.
�
HK MTR not going to experience the same shit we are facing.� HK media will blow any of this shit out of proportion.� HK MTR will shrink ball..
https://www.gov.sg/f...ts-manufacturer
Why are MRT trains being shipped back to manufacturer?
Why are MRT trains being shipped back to their manufacturer?
Defects were found during a check of new trains manufactured by Kawasaki Heavy Industries and CSR Sifang in late 2013. There were a few hairline cracks on the car-body. These are superficial cracks (like those that show up on the walls of a new house). They are not structural cracks and are not safety-critical. No cracks were found on other train components after further inspections.�
If this is true, then why do they need to even repair the trains? Superficial cracks only right?
Are these defects dangerous?
The defects are hairline cracks (due to material impurity that occurred during manufacturing) and are not safety-critical. They do not affect the train�s systems, performance or passengers� safety.�
Ditto
Are the trains still under warranty?
Yes, they are still under the manufacturer�s warranty. As such, the Land Transport Authority (LTA) is sending the trains in small batches back to the manufacturer for rectification. This is the appropriate thing to do to ensure we get the value for our money.�
How is it value for money? If there is a defect but it doesn't affect operations and�aesthetic, then isn't �the "value for our money" method to just ask for some compensation?
How can you be sure the trains are safe?
To ensure that trains are safe for passenger service, all defects are monitored closely. Monthly safety assessments are also conducted by LTA and the manufacturer before trains are put into service.
LTA also commissioned an external third party assessment in 2013 which had confirmed that the trains are safe to operate. As advised by the third party assessment, there has also been close monitoring of the crack propagation rate.
Why send back only one train at a time and not all 26 trains?
To ensure adequate train availability, only one train (six train cars) is sent back for repair at any one time. Starting next year, two trains will be sent back concurrently as we will have more new and upgraded trains to maintain train availability.
Why do the trains have to be sent back to China for repair?
The most effective way to address the defects is to replace the entire car-body shell. However, due to the lack of facilities and space for such replacement works of such nature at our Singapore train depots, the trains were sent back for repairs.
Why transport these trains in the dead of night?
Our trains are big and massive equipment. They are transported at night, with auxiliary police officers clearing the way ahead, to minimise obstruction and inconvenience to road users. Likewise, new trains that arrive in Singapore are transported on our roads at night.
Then why cover them up in green covers?
The green covers are to protect the trains, just as how we would bubble-wrap or enclose in boxes and styrofoam-pad electronic equipment and machinery that we want to transport overseas.�
Then why are the new trains not wrapped when transported over to Singapore? They don't need protection?
Will the repairs really take 7 years?
No, LTA has negotiated with the manufacturer and it will be able to speed up the process. Trains are being sent in batches and the rectification work will be completed in 2019. Each train car body replacement takes up to four months.
Was there really a case of a battery explosion?
The battery housing cover for one train undergoing testing before being put into service, flew open due to a build-up of gases. Immediate action was taken to improve the battery housing design for all affected trains.
What about shattered train windows?
No defects were found on train windows (the large ones behind passenger seats). However, cracks on draughtscreens (the glass panel at the side of a row of seats) were found on five trains. These were due to errors during the installation process which caused stress pressures on the glass, and unrelated to the incidents of hairline cracks on the trains.
For additional information: LTA's Facebook
Source: Ministry of Transport
�
We don't expect MOT to come up with a press release to say they admit to a coverup and they were caught with their pants down, do we?https://www.gov.sg/f...ts-manufacturer
Why are MRT trains being shipped back to manufacturer?
Why are MRT trains being shipped back to their manufacturer?
Defects were found during a check of new trains manufactured by Kawasaki Heavy Industries and CSR Sifang in late 2013. There were a few hairline cracks on the car-body. These are superficial cracks (like those that show up on the walls of a new house). They are not structural cracks and are not safety-critical. No cracks were found on other train components after further inspections.
Are these defects dangerous?
The defects are hairline cracks (due to material impurity that occurred during manufacturing) and are not safety-critical. They do not affect the train�s systems, performance or passengers� safety.
Are the trains still under warranty?
Yes, they are still under the manufacturer�s warranty. As such, the Land Transport Authority (LTA) is sending the trains in small batches back to the manufacturer for rectification. This is the appropriate thing to do to ensure we get the value for our money.
How can you be sure the trains are safe?
To ensure that trains are safe for passenger service, all defects are monitored closely. Monthly safety assessments are also conducted by LTA and the manufacturer before trains are put into service.
LTA also commissioned an external third party assessment in 2013 which had confirmed that the trains are safe to operate. As advised by the third party assessment, there has also been close monitoring of the crack propagation rate.
Why send back only one train at a time and not all 26 trains?
To ensure adequate train availability, only one train (six train cars) is sent back for repair at any one time. Starting next year, two trains will be sent back concurrently as we will have more new and upgraded trains to maintain train availability.
Why do the trains have to be sent back to China for repair?
The most effective way to address the defects is to replace the entire car-body shell. However, due to the lack of facilities and space for such replacement works of such nature at our Singapore train depots, the trains were sent back for repairs.
Why transport these trains in the dead of night?
Our trains are big and massive equipment. They are transported at night, with auxiliary police officers clearing the way ahead, to minimise obstruction and inconvenience to road users. Likewise, new trains that arrive in Singapore are transported on our roads at night.
Then why cover them up in green covers?
The green covers are to protect the trains, just as how we would bubble-wrap or enclose in boxes and styrofoam-pad electronic equipment and machinery that we want to transport overseas.
Will the repairs really take 7 years?
No, LTA has negotiated with the manufacturer and it will be able to speed up the process. Trains are being sent in batches and the rectification work will be completed in 2019. Each train car body replacement takes up to four months.
Was there really a case of a battery explosion?
The battery housing cover for one train undergoing testing before being put into service, flew open due to a build-up of gases. Immediate action was taken to improve the battery housing design for all affected trains.
What about shattered train windows?
No defects were found on train windows (the large ones behind passenger seats). However, cracks on draughtscreens (the glass panel at the side of a row of seats) were found on five trains. These were due to errors during the installation process which caused stress pressures on the glass, and unrelated to the incidents of hairline cracks on the trains.
For additional information: LTA's Facebook
Source: Ministry of Transport
Remember, this is a no blame culture government who is always right.
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With this kind of deplorable situation, you think they can make sound technical judgement and evaluation of the trains they buy??
i can. buy the most expensive! Must be best!
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meanwhile....
See see look look...oh many many defect
Faster zao... *arm chio*
Edited by Mockngbrd, 07 July 2016 - 10:11 AM.
i can. buy the most expensive! Must be best!
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No la.
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They will write the tender specs like this:
�
"exact same train as Hong kong MTR"
The Hong Kong MTR will be experiencing what we have very soon. That's why this is big news to them.
Must be they dont want to buy China trains, thats why dig out all the problems
first time i ever heard of a PRC coy which will do a 1-1 exchange for a product sold.
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if only all coys were like this.
This is really not a big deal --
the best equivalent I can draw for a car owner discussion board,
Your new car comes with a faint scratch in the paint that can be polished out...
Should you take it to the AD to repair or should you just get the car polished?
Would you tell your CO knowing that she will KPKB and scold or would you just drop by one day to have it fixed up?
Nothing to see here, there is no cover up because there is nothing worthy of a cover up, taking trains out of service and returning them is a trivial matter.� I doubt the bosses were even notified - the exec in charge of scheduling maintenance is probably handling all of this.
first time i ever heard of a PRC coy which will do a 1-1 exchange for a product sold.
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if only all coys were like this.
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1-1 exchange if the product is faulty and can cause death, I have heard of.
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1-1 exchange when the defect is supposedly minor, doesn't affect safety or performance, that's a first.
You must understand...
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No mistake has been made here, the people involved are actually being modest and don't want all the praise.
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They were super vigilant to have spotted these very minor defects that don't affect safety or reliability, and then it is down to their negotiating skills that the China company is willing to repair the items totally free - even including all of the logistics and shipping costs which will be reimbursed to LTA.
�
The person that is managing this is likely in line to receive congratulations and recognition from Parliament because of their outstanding skill and dedication
1-1 exchange if the product is faulty and can cause death, I have heard of.
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1-1 exchange when the defect is supposedly minor, doesn't affect safety or performance, that's a first.
�
yalor no wonder lt8 keep buying from them despite all the "minor defects" HAHAHA
Edited by Duckduck, 07 July 2016 - 10:54 AM.
HK MTR not going to experience the same shit we are facing.� HK media will blow any of this shit out of proportion.� HK MTR will shrink ball..
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Haha...IMO too late. They have already placed order.
Must be they dont want to buy China trains, thats why dig out all the problems
�
I think they are like smrt have been buying from the same train maker from the start.
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Haha...IMO too late. They have already placed order.
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I think they are like smrt have been buying from the same train maker from the start.
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1-1 exchange for minor issues who dun want!
HDB minor issues can exchance arnot? Gahmen teach one
Woohoo!!!!HDB minor issues can exchance arnot? Gahmen teach one
1.4TSI faster exchange for a GTIWoohoo!!!!
"Secret" 'cos the trains are all wrapped up like bolster-shaped bak chang.
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This type of operation normally at night one, needs advance booking for police escort. So, this makes it even more "secret".
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I just can't imagine the trucking bills especially the cometto. It's like at least $50,000 per block of X hours per trip; thereafter $5,000 per hour or part of for demurrage.... something liddat....
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The cranes mobilised for lifting is another big ticket item.
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Total costs will be higher than ocean freight for sure.
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Bro, didn't you read previous postings ?
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LTA/MRT scheduled carriage transports at night as SOP for safety reason on public roads.
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All these comes with outriders and other blinking and sirens vehicles and of coz this will cost $.
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Do you get to tpt your furniture and house hold items FOC when moving house ?
Sadly, this is true for so-called 'regulatory' bodies here in singapore ... there are just no true experts.
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As can be seen, many regulations and rules just copy, cut, paste from EU or USA regulators. There is no expert (or none daring to make the call in our tai-chi civil and public service) to evaluate, make judgement call, make exceptions, etc.
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It does not help that fewer and fewer outstanding students are opting to study engineering, and those that land up in public service are often the remainder after private sector blue-chip companies have creamed off the top. The scholars and fast-movers in public and civil service stay far, far away from the real nitty-gritty engineering work.
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With this kind of deplorable situation, you think they can make sound technical judgement and evaluation of the trains they buy??
�
haha. very very typical of Singapore civil servants. most CMI. i remember once i gave them some advice on a project. refused to believe me cause i'm also Singaporean with no-white skin. They then go waste my tax payers dollars to hire a white consultant. and guess what the bloody consultant called me to ask for advice!
uh... any chance that our own MSM only reported it because it was already leaked?
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One would consider this news as� "leak" when agree with HK media allegation that this is� a "secret" operation.
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Question is : Is this REALLY "secret" ?�
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When public perception gets this impression based on the HK report, then KBW jolly well better have a good rebuttal, fast.
I went to google maps and see Jurong Port. Can see the train cars are there already.
![[grin]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_sPHp8ONy_aHcw2uiWHraSqtNL2DSMe9_Y3XXZ5syCN757Rz-_KV7eR8EIb45V2lgGohJZv6ESYbnYggKCZxVmk4jJvveZoW8OjglCC9DWznOD5hw6qZIe9fKIKJtkH69VYCM8=s0-d)
�
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I believe that is what he say.Bro, didn't you read previous postings ?
LTA/MRT scheduled carriage transports at night as SOP for safety reason on public roads.
All these comes with outriders and other blinking and sirens vehicles and of coz this will cost $.
Do you get to tpt your furniture and house hold items FOC when moving house ?
One would consider this news as� "leak" when agree with HK media allegation that this is� a "secret" operation.
�
Question is : Is this REALLY "secret" ?�
�
When public perception gets this impression based on the HK report, then KBW jolly well better have a good rebuttal, fast.
�
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of course this is no secret now that it has been exposed.
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the pertinent question is, did the authorities try to keep it a secret? seems they did so successfully, from Jul 2013 when the defects were first noticed. Three whole years have passed, with lots of news abt new trains, train frequency, train breakdowns, change of leadership�etc. Any news abt these defects?
�
How does this not seem to be an attempt at a cover up?
�
if we the public had been informed abt this in a timely manner, would the HK chaps have used the term "secret"? That would be silly, no? In view of the lack of prior information for the past three years, how is using the term "secret" an attempt to sway public perception from the truth?
Can somebody do a taobao spoof?My online purchases from China can 1-1 exchange or 100% refund.
Did LTA/SMRT buy from Taobao also?
Wah! Google also gpgtI went to google maps and see Jurong Port. Can see the train cars are there already.
Screenshot Jurong Port from Google.jpg
Sometimes I wonder why Raymond Lim was demoted and why Lui resigned from a very well-paid job...
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Must be due to rubbish performance or stress or .... ![[laugh]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_uAXApG_uiRns8F_jtPrBcYgPtdxio2rnnWheMi_6Ue1vFtYCN2_BhZrkldELYS0JMZxxQYaSBVug9gb7dePh634-zRvkd7TGGfZSDBUhe_Ofz_OWFGZ8x3BqgC-LInjjAxCXJqaw=s0-d)
As a layman, LTA reply provide more puzzle than answer. First of all, how can be that�hairlines cracks on the bolster is not a safety issue, since the whole train is sitting on it? If the bolster give way when it is in operation, the whole train can be derailed?!
�
And if it is that straight forward, why can't we have the defective bolster replaced in Singapore�say at Bishan or other depot that perform regular servicing, maintenance and repair? These depot will sure have the necessary lifting equipment to hoist up the train, and the new bolster can be installed in the similar manner as�replacement of the steel wheels, why need to spend extra time and $$$ to have the train sent back to China??
�
And this is the most puzzling part:
Due to the nature of the defect, the most effective way of addressing it is to replace the entire car-body shell. As the trains were under warranty, we required the contractor to replace the entire car body shell. Hence, since July 2014, the affected trains have been progressively sent back to the factory for rectification works. The costs of the shipping are borne by the contractor.
�
i) Why need to replace the entire car-body shell instead of just the bolster?
ii) Why no annoucement of the repair / replacement work (since 2014) till 2 days ago when it was made public by some external parties?
iii) Shipping cost borned by the contractor? What about the downtime, labour cost, and not to mention the additonal monthly inspection and 3rd party assessment??
imagine we buy car. then discover chassis got crack.�
but AD insists the crack is nothing, car is safe to drive.
but they want to take in your car, and give u a spare
I went to google maps and see Jurong Port. Can see the train cars are there already.
�
�
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Indeed! The chance of Google's satellite capturing the trains at the port waiting to be loaded was actually very very low, UNLESS the trains were stored/stuck at the particular spot for MONTHS!
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Mabybe SMRT depots ran out of space to keep all these undeployed (BUT "safe" to use, according to LTA) trains.
�
BTW LTA's FAQ on the hairline cracks is a joke - equating the cracks on the metal structural component to the surface cracks in HDB flats!� Perhaps LTA doesn't know the difference between Reinforced concrete and Plaster.
Indeed! The chance of Google's satellite capturing the trains at the port waiting to be loaded was actually very very low, UNLESS the trains were stored/stuck at the particular spot for MONTHS!
�
Mabybe SMRT depots ran out of space to keep all these undeployed (BUT "safe" to use, according to LTA) trains.
�
BTW LTA's FAQ on the hairline cracks is a joke - equating the cracks on the metal structural component to the surface cracks in HDB flats!� Perhaps LTA doesn't know the difference between Reinforced concrete and Plaster.
�
But good enough to cheat the ignorant masses no?
Haha...IMO too late. They have already placed order.
�
I think they are like smrt have been buying from the same train maker from the start.
�
�
Juz reported in HK.� HK govt knows about the crack 1 yr ago.� MTR HK still place order.
Indeed! The chance of Google's satellite capturing the trains at the port waiting to be loaded was actually very very low, UNLESS the trains were stored/stuck at the particular spot for MONTHS!
�
Mabybe SMRT depots ran out of space to keep all these undeployed (BUT "safe" to use, according to LTA) trains.
�
BTW LTA's FAQ on the hairline cracks is a joke - equating the cracks on the metal structural component to the surface cracks in HDB flats!� Perhaps LTA doesn't know the difference between Reinforced concrete and Plaster.
�
�
You are right. I compare the photos from Google map and the one taken by Factwire, Google Map image, there are no solar panels on the buildings. Factwire image shows there are solar panels on the building. This shows this RMA process has been ongoing for quite some time already!!!
�
From Google :�
�
�
�
�
From Factwire :
�
y they neber use this to fix?
Those are Cable Ties - and reserved for repair of the third rail.
�
For cracks on metal, experts recommend this:
�
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There is absolutely no need to send back to Qingdao.� It is only hairline cracks, no safety issue!
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this is serious man...
this is serious man...
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Serious to nitizens but not to them ...
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cos ceiling cleaning was very serious�...
this is serious man...
�
LTA officer never think that these problem should be communicated to public.
LTA officer never think that these problem should be communicated to public.
�
Yup....
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It's a "family affair", outsider keep out ...
Even more ironically, we are depending on HK journa to learn n likely to continue learning whats going on here.
Wa lau eh!!!stir ar stir:
https://www.factwire...Early-2015.html
This just gets worse and worse.... one part on singapore trains says about possibility of equipment falling onto tracks, damn it!!!
LTA explanation in today's ST papers is very swee as usual. Avoided eevery where. Any trainee investigator would have failed if they turned in a report like that given the leaks known now.
"I don't recall. ." Will be the catch phrase in govt circles now.
To be fair.You are right. I compare the photos from Google map and the one taken by Factwire, Google Map image, there are no solar panels on the buildings. Factwire image shows there are solar panels on the building. This shows this RMA process has been ongoing for quite some time already!!!
From Google :
From Factwire :
Factwire image 3.jpg
Unless someone confess.
There's no way now to know if the old Google pictures are the same defect trains.
It could be new trains just came in. Or transhipment to another country customer.
But. What's known now is plenty damning enough.
I dont want to hear any complain, anymore ... ever !!!
muahahahaha ...
Edited by Wt_know, 07 July 2016 - 03:48 PM.
let me quote the legendary quote
I dont want to hear any complain, anymore ... ever !!!
muahahahaha ...
now is 69%
�
next round we might even see 75%
![[crazy]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_t_2HAXO2ne2OvnBuOzMd8P56S5Yi50S6QdSTLmwWa_CNZXQvEmqEsNDUyVhiJRNjFewkincoPeWyIkA3VdEgnNLnLYhORSjStsU6nv6GsXbH7MSdPXu9Z_UGMA28qN4RZH9jwfOA=s0-d)
While the LTA CEO keep quiet about the whole thing and our dear leeder taking welfies, doing jump.
Edited by Fcw75, 07 July 2016 - 04:23 PM.
Seriously I don't know what is wrong with some Singaporeans. Just enjoyed kenna f**ked in the ass then still never learn lesson, keep asking for more.
While the LTA CEO keep quiet about the whole thing and our dear leeder taking welfies, doing jump.
�
Like Ostrich loh.� Head inside a hole but butt outside.
Three questions need to be asked before jumping� the gun:
�
a) Are you lumping last 4 years of "multiple breakdowns" under the hair-line found in the C151A model?
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I am saying that there have been multiple stories over the last 4 years about the status of the MRT, the track repairs, the signalling upgrades, new trains coming and more.� This latest event / information would seem to be largely equivalent - if "signalling upgrades" and "sleeper replacement" can be announced - why not the return and repair of 26 trains?���
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b) If there is indeed a cover-up based on this HK report alone, what benefit will it bring to major stakeholders of MRT system
Why is it up to me to analyse the motivations of the major stakeholders?� The simple fact is that this problem has been known about since at least 2013 - and probably earlier. People behave in different ways for different reasons. There are two simple facts that we�know for�sure ---
i. this problem has been known about for three years (at least)
ii. �No public announcement has been made by LTA, Govt or SMRT. Despite multiple�opportunities and a lot�of other equivalent and relevant news being talked about (particularly reliability issues and fault reports) �
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c) Are you suggesting that here is extensive collusion between supplies and official in LTA/SMRT and related gov boards?
I'm not suggesting it - I am outright stating it with a megaphone.� to keep something like this quiet for so long will have required extensive�collusion.��If the relevant parties are even half way competent this has been known about for a long time at many�different levels - from CEO through to Minister, Perm Sec and more.
That they know about it and didn't talk - but instead worked on solving the problem is collusion.
What we don't know is the WHY.
I�can come up with multiple scenarios as to why - you can judge for yourself the likelihood of each...
1. The�repairs agreement negotiated was�contingent on LTA / SMRT not announcing the problem
2. The relevant parties saw this as "business and usual" and so insignificant that it didn't need to�be mentioned / fell under normal operational issues that are not talked about
?3.� There is a legal / regulatory reason that it couldn't be talked about - perhaps it could be seen as some sort of information seen as moving the share price to SMRT and cannot be talked about for a listed company or something similar
?4. A strategic decision was taken that this would cause unnecessary worry in the public and it didn't need to be talked about
?5. The relevant parties found it embarrassing and thought it would have a negative impact on their image and on that basis kept it quiet.
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BTW, the hairline crack was discovered in 2013, that is less than 4 years ago based on your source and definitely not discovered since it began operating in 2011
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Apologies - I conflated a few dates, although one source does mention problems "with 3 months of delivery in 2011" - however there is no reason to be surly on the point - the difference between 3 years and 4 years is not significant to the points being made.
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At least kenna f**ked in the ass, the ostrich head still inside the ground and just pretend nothing happened.Like Ostrich loh. Head inside a hole but butt outside.
But we can see with our own eyes and make judgement, and yet they keep asking for more?!
of course this is no secret now that it has been exposed.
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the pertinent question is, did the authorities try to keep it a secret? seems they did so successfully, from Jul 2013 when the defects were first noticed. Three whole years have passed, with lots of news abt new trains, train frequency, train breakdowns, change of leadership�etc. Any news abt these defects?
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How does this not seem to be an attempt at a cover up?
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if we the public had been informed abt this in a timely manner, would the HK chaps have used the term "secret"? That would be silly, no? In view of the lack of prior information for the past three years, how is using the term "secret" an attempt to sway public perception from the truth?
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Sorry, this isn't a "pertinent" question but more of a rhetorical one.
Since you completed the question and ended with a statement "they did so successfully", that pretty much a judgement call itself.
No ?
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As you also agree this Story has been crafted in such manner that put suggestive opinions in ways that manipulates public perception while without giving concrete evidence that is� a "secret" operation.
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That is the power of information (or misinfomaton) through media.
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As I commented earlier, why jump the gun on the premise of a report made by an agency funded by unknown $ and run by non-Hong Kongers ?
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You are right. I compare the photos from Google map and the one taken by Factwire, Google Map image, there are no solar panels on the buildings. Factwire image shows there are solar panels on the building. This shows this RMA process has been ongoing for quite some time already!!!
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From Factwire :
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You know, those FactWire's own drone videos also concur to what� LTA has said:
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Why send back only one train at a time and not all 26 trains?
To ensure adequate train availability, only one train (six train cars) is sent back for repair at any one time. Starting next year, two trains will be sent back concurrently as we will have more new and upgraded trains to maintain train availability.
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Source:� https://www.gov.sg/f...ts-manufacturer
Edited by Wishcumstrue, 07 July 2016 - 05:07 PM.
Sorry, this isn't a "pertinent" question but more of a rhetorical one.
Since you completed the question and ended with a statement "they did so successfully", that pretty much a judgement call itself.
No ?
�
As you also agree this Story has been crafted in such manner that put suggestive opinions in ways that manipulates public perception while without giving concrete evidence that is� a "secret" operation.
�
That is the power of information (or misinfomaton) through media.
�
As I commented earlier, why jump the gun on the premise of a report made by an agency funded by unknown $ and run by non-Hong Kongers ?
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Your statements would be true prior to LTA's rebuttal/response. But to say we are jumping the gun after both sides have had their say isn't fair.�
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IMO, LTA's response is rubbish.
You know, those FactWire's own drone videos also concur to what� LTA has said:
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Why send back only one train at a time and not all 26 trains?
To ensure adequate train availability, only one train (six train cars) is sent back for repair at any one time. Starting next year, two trains will be sent back concurrently as we will have more new and upgraded trains to maintain train availability.�
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More like LTA's statements confirm factwire's drone videos.
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It was Factwire that released the information first.
I bought a Kanenabeh power drill from a China website sometime ago
But after using them for a while, I realized that it started to strip my nuts badly
When I looked further, I realized there were some cracks in the gear
I contacted the shipper and they neogtiated a return to the manufacturer
Now, the manufacturer was kind enough to pay for shipping
But wanted 7 years to repair the parts
He told me that the cracks did not affect the usage of the tools
Do you think I should write off the tool
Or should I send it back for repair?
imagine we buy car. then discover chassis got crack.�
but AD insists the crack is nothing, car is safe to drive.
but they want to take in your car, and give u a spare
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Different comparison lah.
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More like customer complain and the manufacturer accept it their product issue and under warranty agree to fix the problem at no cost to customer.
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AFAIK, train deals don't have AD as go in between.
Should in the taobao thread
Sorry, this isn't a "pertinent" question but more of a rhetorical one.
Since you completed the question and ended with a statement "they did so successfully", that pretty much a judgement call itself.
No ?
�
As you also agree this Story has been crafted in such manner that put suggestive opinions in ways that manipulates public perception while without giving concrete evidence that is� a "secret" operation.
�
That is the power of information (or misinfomaton) through media.
�
As I commented earlier, why jump the gun on the premise of a report made by an agency funded by unknown $ and run by non-Hong Kongers ?
�
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I am curious ....
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Your contention appears to be that this was not a "secret operation".
What, in your mind, would somebody need to� show to prove that the return of the trains, the problems and the cracks was not being done "in secret"?��
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?I am taking "secret" to mean "not announced to the public and efforts taken to keep the news away for everyday Singaporeans"
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We know for a FACT
1. The problems have been known about since at least 2013
2. The problems are serious enough that the trains have to be shipped back to China and "replaced"
3. There was not any public announcement of the "replacement" of 26 trains made by LTA / SMRT - while at the same time announcements of the purchase of a much lesser number of trains WAS announced.
�
How does this NOT imply that efforts were made to keep the news "secret"?
Guys, need some advice
I bought a Kanenabeh power drill from a China website sometime ago
But after using them for a while, I realized that it started to strip my nuts badly
When I looked further, I realized there were some cracks in the gear
I contacted the shipper and they neogtiated a return to the manufacturer
Now, the manufacturer was kind enough to pay for shipping
But wanted 7 years to repair the parts
He told me that the cracks did not affect the usage of the tools
Do you think I should write off the tool
Or should I send it back for repair?
My advise would be to stop using power tools on your nuts...
that would minimise the risk of serious injury to your parts
I am curious ....
�
Your contention appears to be that this was not a "secret operation".
What, in your mind, would somebody need to� show to prove that the return of the trains, the problems and the cracks was not being done "in secret"?��
�
?I am taking "secret" to mean "not announced to the public and efforts taken to keep the news away for everyday Singaporeans"
�
We know for a FACT
1. The problems have been known about since at least 2013
2. The problems are serious enough that the trains have to be shipped back to China and "replaced"
3. There was not any public announcement of the "replacement" of 26 trains made by LTA / SMRT - while at the same time announcements of the purchase of a much lesser number of trains WAS announced.
�
How does this NOT imply that efforts were made to keep the news "secret"?
My advise would be to stop using power tools on your nuts...
that would minimise the risk of serious injury to your parts
�
Your statements would be true prior to LTA's rebuttal/response. But to say we are jumping the gun after both sides have had their say isn't fair.�
�
IMO, LTA's response is rubbish.
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More like LTA's statements confirm factwire's drone videos.
�
It was Factwire that released the information first.
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Might as well say my comments are all a lie since it is based on LTA's "rubbish" statement while ignoring HK media why of storytelling. ![[:p]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_voYaxHRHSvwFsFX-1ZQR95qMGKkAhd0GPY18nkOQ439znMVrvsX3oZPYirUA2wp9HUI4lBsYtJMBTFz-YnU8-NKG8Cl-T4guE57hsUtWh4FuQNypypZkFPa4F4QzXDKrpjJm1q3PU=s0-d)
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So what next ?�� That by this exposure of this "secret" is itself evidence of illegal or immoral activity ?
My person opinion...I am curious ....
Your contention appears to be that this was not a "secret operation".
What, in your mind, would somebody need to show to prove that the return of the trains, the problems and the cracks was not being done "in secret"?
�I am taking "secret" to mean "not announced to the public and efforts taken to keep the news away for everyday Singaporeans"
We know for a FACT
1. The problems have been known about since at least 2013
2. The problems are serious enough that the trains have to be shipped back to China and "replaced"
3. There was not any public announcement of the "replacement" of 26 trains made by LTA / SMRT - while at the same time announcements of the purchase of a much lesser number of trains WAS announced.
How does this NOT imply that efforts were made to keep the news "secret"?
My advise would be to stop using power tools on your nuts...
that would minimise the risk of serious injury to your parts
The operation wasn't cover up as its common to cover item for oversea delivery by sea especially when this item is on a lowbed and going to be place at the TOP of all the container.
As for delivery at nigh. This is large item, Singapore traffic law dictate that these sort of item need to be deliver at night after peak hour with police escort. It's common amount the shipyard.
All the above are commercial dealing, I don't see why Msm need to report on commercial dealing....
However, the one we really can question is, why is such a serious defect still use the train? We don't have to know since its commercial dealing, but how can they use it?
Edited by Joseph22, 07 July 2016 - 05:27 PM.
Might as well say my comments are all a lie since it is based on LTA's "rubbish" statement while ignoring HK media why of storytelling.
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So what next ?�� That by this exposure of this "secret" is itself evidence of illegal or immoral activity ?
Is keeping a secret "illegal" - depends on the law I guess.
Is keeping a secret "immoral" - well you're the one that suggested it, not me.� There are many secrets that should be kept, and others where it is important to make the effort to tell the truth....but this is in the eyes of the beholder...
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Something to think about -
If you know that your brother's wife is having a secret�affair - would you tell him?� Why or why not?� If you DON'T tell him - are you keeping a secret?� Is it "immoral" to keep this secret or "immoral" to insert yourself into what happens in your brother's marriage?
I say Orbigood... The brand name already screw u Liao still buy.Guys, need some advice
I bought a Kanenabeh power drill from a China website sometime ago
But after using them for a while, I realized that it started to strip my nuts badly
When I looked further, I realized there were some cracks in the gear
I contacted the shipper and they neogtiated a return to the manufacturer
Now, the manufacturer was kind enough to pay for shipping
But wanted 7 years to repair the parts
He told me that the cracks did not affect the usage of the tools
Do you think I should write off the tool
Or should I send it back for repair?
Dont take mrt daily. But if mrt breakdown, all of us will be directly or indirectly affected.so how many here complaining takes the mrt daily?
�
Sorry, this isn't a "pertinent" question but more of a rhetorical one.
Since you completed the question and ended with a statement "they did so successfully", that pretty much a judgement call itself.
No ?
�
As you also agree this Story has been crafted in such manner that put suggestive opinions in ways that manipulates public perception while without giving concrete evidence that is� a "secret" operation.
�
That is the power of information (or misinfomaton) through media.
�
As I commented earlier, why jump the gun on the premise of a report made by an agency funded by unknown $ and run by non-Hong Kongers ?
�
Let me start by saying that I too, take a charitable view of people's actions, and especially the government. I have defended COE, ERP, ministerial salaries and Pioneer Generation Package etc on this forum (accumulating dunno how many dislike points along the way). Check my posting history. I am not one to take a cynical view of the establishment.
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Wishcumstrue, I believe your opinion is that we should not jump to conclusions that there has been a cover-up. Fair point.
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You also seem to believe that there is foreign intervention in this matter, by virtue of the media involved. Also acceptable.
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What would then be the objective of this foreign media?
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Pinobii has said that there are HK-ers who want to prevent Chinese made products from entering their territory. A possible situation. They would then have the incentive to make this whole incident more shady and sow distrust among HK-ers. SMRT would then be a collateral damage in this whole saga.
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... but that means the whole return-to-sender did happen, and LTA/SMRT/CSR Sifang indeed did not tell us. Which is the bulk of the contention here.
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Let's think more sinuous intentions, people who have a direct interest in seeing Singapore and China relations break down. Malaysians? Indonesians? Americans? People who will benefit from our lesser dependence on China. Maybe the Koreans who lost out on the contract for this batch of trains, perhaps?
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... none of these people could have achieved this if the defects did not occur. These are facts, and facts acknowledged by LTA itself.
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I may be pro-establishment, but I cannot be wilfully blind.
Edited by Alheych, 07 July 2016 - 08:59 PM.
you mean sit in the car and lament the traffic jam caused by the breakdown?Dont take mrt daily. But if mrt breakdown, all of us will be directly or indirectly affected.
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