mycarforum: Is it worth it purchase a 2013 car with High COE? part 1

Hi MCF-ers, just need to ask this question to get it over my mental calculations.

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Im driving a BMW 316i for close to 2years now (since Nov 2014) and im looking to change to another ride with a larger interior space (MPV / SUV / Stationwagon). I searched through Sgcarmart and find that some 2013 cars are quite "value for $$".

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My current monthly installments (5years loan) is about $1.6k.

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The 2013 cars i shortlisted, monthly installments ranges from $1.15k - $1.2k for 7years loan.

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I know i am a itchy backside person having changed a few cars within 10years of driving. [:p] so i think i might change cars normally 2-3years of ownership.

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I was looking at Audi A6 Avant or some Conti/Jap SUVs price ranging from $125k-$140k. Depre is around 16-17k/year. I think depreciation will not matter to me since i most probably wont drive the full 10years.

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As we all know, 2013 was record breaking for COE prices. Most of the 2nd hand cars i saw had $93k COE and the prices listed are now almost 40% off the then listed prices (not sure of any discount or what when 1st owner bought) for a short 3years usage.

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Can any helpful soul enlighten me?

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Thanks very much!

Hey bro, I'm driving an audi that I bought second hand from premium automobile with sky-high COE (98k!!!). Based on my own calculations, it is a worthwhile purchase because of the significant discount to new car price and while my car is second hand, it is essentially a brand new car because it has just been sitting in the showroom (mileage of the car when I collected it was only 12km, which is as good as zero). My depreciation is around $17k/yr, which I feel is a fair price given the circumstances that I just described.�

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The only problem I see with such expensive COE cars is the future resale value, as the high paper value makes it less attractive when compared to cars with much lower COEs.

Edited by Bigassgun, 06 September 2016 - 04:01 PM.

Hi MCF-ers, just need to ask this question to get it over my mental calculations.

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Im driving a BMW 316i for close to 2years now (since Nov 2014) and im looking to change to another ride with a larger interior space (MPV / SUV / Stationwagon). I searched through Sgcarmart and find that some 2013 cars are quite "value for $$".

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My current monthly installments (5years loan) is about $1.6k.

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The 2013 cars i shortlisted, monthly installments ranges from $1.15k - $1.2k for 7years loan.

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I know i am a itchy backside person having changed a few cars within 10years of driving. so i think i might change cars normally 2-3years of ownership.

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I was looking at Audi A6 Avant or some Conti/Jap SUVs price ranging from $125k-$140k. Depre is around 16-17k/year. I think depreciation will not matter to me since i most probably wont drive the full 10years.

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As we all know, 2013 was record breaking for COE prices. Most of the 2nd hand cars i saw had $93k COE and the prices listed are now almost 40% off the then listed prices (not sure of any discount or what when 1st owner bought) for a short 3years usage.

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Can any helpful soul enlighten me?

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Thanks very much!

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i am like you, like to change car every few years... so i usually buy cars that left about 3yrs...

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depreciation will matter because unless there is another extreme upswing in COE, most likely the 2013 car you buy, the depreciation is gonna be about 20k/yr or more if you sell it 2-3 yrs later... so unless you can tahan selling the car for 60-80k after 2-3yrs... i think you better stick to your current car

Hello, I was in a similar situation considering to upgrade but I found that the trade in price for my current car was really low. I guess the dealer have to make some money.

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Assuming you got your 316i for about 170k. The current pricing for 2014 316i is 115-130k. You probably will be offered about 100K plus minus. Can you stomach losing 70k in 2 years? That's like 35k depreciation a year bro!

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At least for me, pricing for the new car is not so much the problem. Getting rid of the present car is main conundrum.

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Only solution is to sell your present car privately.�

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Or just buy as a 2nd car! Haha..� [wave]

Yes, most likely it will be a direct buyer sale since i have done up my car quite extensively.. I would like the new buyer to experience what a true bmw 316i is really like instead of the stock pml is selling.

Yes some buyers prefer stock car but there are many enthusiasts around too.

Im not in a rush.. Just considering my options.

The 316i wasn't bought at such a high price so i can still stomach that depre for 2yrs.

Whats more the pre-owned car im looking at only travelled 22k kms, much lesser than my current car. Haha

Edited by Rayoflight, 06 September 2016 - 04:21 PM.

u drive BMW, move to Audi sure sian one. consperm.�

The first owner would have also taken hit the first few yrs depre already so if i sell lets say 2yrs later, there should be a base price too and probably wont lose that much i hope.

Cant believe a brand new 2013 250kish car sells for 130kish in 2013. Probably traded in much less. Lose until shag also haha

u drive BMW, move to Audi sure sian one. consperm.�

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How about Volvo XC60 T5? [laugh]

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I like to see nice interiors with alot of buttons leh.. AUDI got alot of buttons to play.

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Beemer interior i abit sick liao..

Edited by Rayoflight, 06 September 2016 - 04:36 PM.

What about 2012 7 series? Now selling ard 140k.

I remember in 2012 its about 360k. Havent go 5 years ald lose 220k. Thats about 50k per annum

IMHO... here's how I see it.

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The selling price of an used car is made up of the following:

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Market Value = Paper Value + Premium

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The market value of an used car is constantly gauged against the depreciation of an equivalent new car. Hence, the value of an used car will drop if the COE goes downward and vice versa if its goes up. With the equation shown above, the only component that will moves its the "Premium" to match the market value of the car.

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What does that translate then? It means the owner of the 2nd hand high COE value car is somewhat protected by the actual value of the car provided he bought it at a lower premium (20% or less). To place in numerical term, which is a better buy for a $80K used car... one with $60K paper value or one with $40K paper value?

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The other scenarios for consideration will be the situation whereby the car is completely gone after an accident. Which one will be easier to swallow if the insurance company is only willing pay close to the paper value? Is it the one with 20% or 40% premium?

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With that, I do see better value to buy a used car with COE value that is extremely high as I will be paying lower premium for it.�

high coe, high paper value, good buy ...

hmm how come this sounds sibei familiar ... LOL

sounds like "good-bye" [wave] to your $$$

Edited by Wt_know, 06 September 2016 - 04:49 PM.

With the drop in COE, a brand new car may be better value to me.

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The 216D Grand Tourer isn't that expensive too!

With the drop in COE, a brand new car may be better value to me.

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The 216D Grand Tourer isn't that expensive too!

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Did consider that but a used one is going for 145k i saw recently.. likely management car.

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Or i can keep my car until i see a used 216D somewhere again for sale..

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Actually all the discussion here makes sense.. so that's why i'm confused.

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Edited by Rayoflight, 06 September 2016 - 05:14 PM.

Did consider that but a used one is going for 145k i saw recently.. likely management car.

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Or i can keep my car until i see a used 216D somewhere again for sale..

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Actually all the discussion here makes sense.. so that's why i'm confused.

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I think Ford Grand C-Max in that price range also. Since it's using the Focus chassis platform it's quite fun to chuck around. Of course there are the long-term caveats associated with going with a small rep brand though.

Did consider that but a used one is going for 145k i saw recently.. likely management car.

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Or i can keep my car until i see a used 216D somewhere again for sale..

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Actually all the discussion here makes sense.. so that's why i'm confused.

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i was like you earlier this year when checking used 5er year 2012 was around 120k

if get rid of my sept 2013 car around 100~110k, have to come up 10~20k...and lose 1 year coe life

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since car paid up liao..just drive on to 5th year see if any interesting car comes along.

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maybe you should finish up your car loan first before changing another ride. �

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must loon itchiness

What about 2012 7 series? Now selling ard 140k.

I remember in 2012 its about 360k. Havent go 5 years ald lose 220k. Thats about 50k per annum

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you offer higher price ... that will help :secret-laugh: ��

My 2c, should ponder over this for quite many months before making a decision.

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When first bought car, I thought confirm drive 10 years cos most wuhua.

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After 1 year, start to think, so many nice cars out there, life is short, how many 10 years I have only? Maybe should change car at 3 or 5 year mark, just nice still within the high COE supply period.

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Few months later, think again, upgrade to a junior exec car, chao chao 180k, downpayment min also 70k. Spend another 5 years paying off loan. Why not save the money to upgrade house instead? So back to driving until scrap...

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Who knows maybe next year change thinking again� [hur]

Ur idea is a good one but certainly it has to be a significant upgrade�

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Once u have calculated your "loss" for ur 316I, then u wait for opportunity

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have been monitoring for a while

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Saw a 1 year old 5 series going for just 15kdpr/year, super low mileage, direct owner, sold within 1 day

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the direct owner probably lost 50k plus over 1 year plus year

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There was also 2 XF 2013 with 93k coe, the actual net sale price for new XF then was 230k after discount from wearnes. list price was 250-270k at 93k coe

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Both cars sold at around 120k. great value. one was direct owner. very low mileage, �immediate scrap value 85-90k

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The first owner would have also taken hit the first few yrs depre already so if i sell lets say 2yrs later, there should be a base price too and probably wont lose that much i hope.

Cant believe a brand new 2013 250kish car sells for 130kish in 2013. Probably traded in much less. Lose until shag also haha

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How about Volvo XC60 T5?

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I like to see nice interiors with alot of buttons leh.. AUDI got alot of buttons to play.

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Beemer interior i abit sick liao..

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You also take the first hit for your Beemer.

Your examples make sense cos you are actually upgrading from a 316 to an A6. Naturally the latter took a much bigger hit.

So if you lose say 50K in two years and exchange for one that took a bigger hit then you are ok to go but this only happens for an upgrade.

Keep the high COE car until pay off 5 yr loan at 5th yr. Paper value itself probably can get back 100% of the original d/p amt.

If itchy backside now, get a 2nd hand car to play wif in the meantime.

In buying a used car, I think the COE value is not as critical as compared to buying a new car. The dealers/sellers would set the prices based on current COE values or market sentiments. I will look at depreciation instead.�

dealer will boast about the high paper value from the COE but ignore them. all cars values are mark to market. you will probably sell your bmw cheaper and get your audi cheaper too.

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if both cars are transacted such that your annual depreciation is same or slightly below your current bmw, then you are probably good to do it.

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patience is needed to find good deal.

$96k COE with 24k milleage nia (if it is true)

this one sure good buy ... lol

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Edited by Wt_know, 07 September 2016 - 11:41 AM.

$96k COE with 24k milleage nia (if it is true)

this one sure good buy ... lol

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Assuming the previous owner bought it at $250k back then. He lost over $120K over 3 yrs.

Is this called good resale value? [lipsrsealed]

it's only true if he bought it as a new car - no trade in whatsoever

here is another case

Mr X got a car with $10K+ coe ... he traded in to upgrade to BMW 520i

when coe was $96K ... his old car was traded in as almost the price that he bought

he brag ... he drove the car for 3 years *free* ... in normal circumstances he lose $15k+ at least per year ($45K in total)

so now he lose $120K for 3 years ... actually $45K was rolled over from previous car

so ... what do you think of Mr X?

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when COE was above $90k ... many change car bragging their old car was traded in as close to the price they bought

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spore car market is sibei unique because of COE and also 10 years lifespan

so ... you must look at the total depreciation ... length of ownership

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Assuming the previous owner bought it at $250k back then. He lost over $120K over 3 yrs.

Is this called good resale value?

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Edited by Wt_know, 07 September 2016 - 12:05 PM.

The first owner would have also taken hit the first few yrs depre already so if i sell lets say 2yrs later, there should be a base price too and probably wont lose that much i hope.

Cant believe a brand new 2013 250kish car sells for 130kish in 2013. Probably traded in much less. Lose until shag also haha

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How about Volvo XC60 T5?

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I like to see nice interiors with alot of buttons leh.. AUDI got alot of buttons to play.

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Beemer interior i abit sick liao..

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I switched to a pre-owned XC60 recently from Select by PPSL.

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They currently have a 2014 T5 unit on sale, I think. Do take a look. Select has very good service and also does a comprehensive review of the car, replacing any parts that needs to be changed and offers a 6 mths or 1 yr warranty depending on the age of the car. This is on top of any AD warranty still remaining on the car.

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The XC60 is a wonderful ride for me, but coming from a low-slung sports sedan, there is some adjustment period involved as the steering is no longer as sharp and precise, and the CG is significantly higher.

it's only true if he bought it as a new car - no trade in whatsoever

here is another case

Mr X got a car with $10K+ coe ... he traded in to upgrade to BMW 520i

when coe was $96K ... his old car was traded in as almost the price that he bought

he brag ... he drove the car for 3 years *free* ... in normal circumstances he lose $15k+ at least per year ($45K in total)

so now he lose $120K for 3 years ... actually $45K was rolled over from previous car

so ... what do you think of Mr X?

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when COE was above $90k ... many change car bragging their old car was traded in as close to the price they bought

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spore car market is sibei unique because of COE and also 10 years lifespan

so ... you must look at the total depreciation ... length of ownership

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My fren drove his used Altis for 3 yrs for free when he sold it in 2013.

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Since then, he had moved to Jakarta.

when COE crashed to below $10k he will return? lol

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My fren drove his used Altis for 3 yrs for free when he sold it in 2013.

Since then, he had moved to Jakarta.

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when COE crashed to below $10k he will return? lol

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Maybe

When the car was bought with the coe over $90k, would it be better to de-registered than selling it in used car market?! My neighbour who bought his car with coe over $90k, he de-registered the car after driving for 3 years plus!�

$96k COE with 24k milleage nia (if it is true)

this one sure good buy ... lol

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Haha... "Premium Preowned 110 Points Inspection"? Zun boh?� [grin]

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Did they get the same inspection by Premium Automobile?

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http://www.sgcarmart...=589958&DL=2425

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:wub:

http://www.sgcarmart...=589958&DL=2425

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how come the horsepower so low in this model?

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thought should be 210 hp?

how come the horsepower so low in this model?

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thought should be 210 hp?

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The A6 2.0 HP (181hp) is different from the A5 2.0(208hp).. more like a detuned version i guess.

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A6 2.0 TFSI (180PS)

� 2011� 1,984�cc (121.1�cu�in) I4 turbo 180�PS (132�kW; 178�hp), 320�N�m (236�lbf�ft) A6 2.0 TFSI (211PS) 2011� 1,984�cc (121.1�cu�in) I4 turbo 211�PS (155�kW; 208�hp), 350�N�m (258�lbf�ft)

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_A6

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Nothing a chip up can't do to tune to higher figures.

The A6 2.0 HP (181hp) is different from the A5 2.0(208hp).. more like a detuned version i guess.

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A6 2.0 TFSI (180PS)
� 2011� 1,984�cc (121.1�cu�in) I4 turbo 180�PS (132�kW; 178�hp), 320�N�m (236�lbf�ft) A6 2.0 TFSI (211PS) 2011� 1,984�cc (121.1�cu�in) I4 turbo 211�PS (155�kW; 208�hp), 350�N�m (258�lbf�ft)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_A6

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Nothing a chip up can't do to tune to higher figures.

Different gearbox...the A5 is a dual clutch (s-tronic), the A6 is a CVT (i.e. multi-tronic).

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Take away the torque converter and you get more power as in the case of the A5.

The A6 2.0 HP (181hp) is different from the A5 2.0(208hp).. more like a detuned version i guess.

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A6 2.0 TFSI (180PS)
� 2011� 1,984�cc (121.1�cu�in) I4 turbo 180�PS (132�kW; 178�hp), 320�N�m (236�lbf�ft) A6 2.0 TFSI (211PS) 2011� 1,984�cc (121.1�cu�in) I4 turbo 211�PS (155�kW; 208�hp), 350�N�m (258�lbf�ft)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_A6

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Nothing a chip up can't do to tune to higher figures.

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yes detuned from the factory

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[dizzy]

Different gearbox...the A5 is a dual clutch (s-tronic), the A6 is a CVT (i.e. multi-tronic).

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Take away the torque converter and you get more power as in the case of the A5.

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please lah...factory specs are power and torque at the crank

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transmission only affects power at the wheels

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the power and torque profiles look like two distinct tuning maps for the same engine

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[dizzy]

http://www.ppsl-sele...771--AVANT.html

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no pictures yet but this one on PPSL select caught my eye

"Mercedes C200 Avant" (probably means its the C200 Estate (wagon))

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At 162k (probably can haggle down more) it's 65k less than when new.

http://www.ppsl-sele...771--AVANT.html

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no pictures yet but this one on PPSL select caught my eye

"Mercedes C200 Avant" (probably means its the C200 Estate (wagon))

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At 162k (probably can haggle down more) it's 65k less than when new.

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Avant = Wagon is only used by Audi.

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C200 with Avantgarde package.

Avant = Wagon is only used by Audi.

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C200 with Avantgarde package.

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doh, you're most likely right, I completely forgot that the main spec for C200s by C&C are Avantgardes

doh, you're most likely right, I completely forgot that the main spec for C200s by C&C are Avantgardes

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Owner lost $70k within 1.5 yrs??
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Owner lost $70k within 1.5 yrs??

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probably more like $80k because of how dealers lowball you

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But maybe they are the kind of people who heck care, got money, instead bought a X6 to replace C200 after 1.5 years. So trade in car to PML and now it wind up in PPSL.

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Possible. [laugh]

probably more like $80k because of how dealers lowball you

But maybe they are the kind of people who heck care, got money, instead bought a X6 to replace C200 after 1.5 years. So trade in car to PML and now it wind up in PPSL.

Possible.

Entirely possible. Got plenty of such richie rich folks in sg. YOLO....

$70k is loose change la
richies not going to lose sleep on it

Edited by Wt_know, 07 September 2016 - 06:08 PM.

come to think about it, after taking a look at your current ride

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Think ur current one looks very gorgeous leh [gorgeous]

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If ur current "Spouse" is so wonderful already� [thumbsup]

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eh, why tempt yourself with "Prettier mistresses" elsewhere� [laugh]

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http://www.sgcarmart...=589958&DL=2425

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divine discontent ... one shall never be too comfortable or content with status quo ... muahahaha
if no itchy backside ... dealer jiak sai liao ... instead of laughing to bank

come to think about it, after taking a look at your current ride

Think ur current one looks very gorgeous leh

If ur current "Spouse" is so wonderful already

eh, why tempt yourself with "Prettier mistresses" elsewhere

mycarforum

Thứ Năm, 27 tháng 10, 2016

Is it worth it purchase a 2013 car with High COE? part 1

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